Vaccination & epidemic

[jinx]

If your argument against vaccines hinges on the availability of bacterial vaccines, you don't have an argument at all.

Argument? I just posted the a list of bacterial vaccines to clear up the misinformation you posted about them not existing.

Originally Posted by jinx

Argument? I just posted the a list of bacterial vaccines to clear up the misinformation you posted about them not existing.

Sort of a red herring, don't you think? I had already admitted to being wrong about bacterial vaccines, and it doesn't have much to do with the discussion at hand, which is about whether vaccines prevent disease.

[jinx]

Originally Posted by Tiki

Sort of a red herring, don't you think? I had already admitted to being wrong about bacterial vaccines, and it doesn't have much to do with the discussion at hand, which is about whether vaccines prevent disease.

No, see, it's not a red herring... It started with you suggesting that Jenny McCarthy and all her anti-vaccine minions are causing MMR uptake to decline - which would then cause measles epidemic and OmGZ!!!11! polio too!!!

I posted statistics which show that measles(along with several other communicable diseases) was in decline (98% decrease) for decades prior to the introduction of the applicable vaccines, if any were even introduced at all. I also posted information showing that there were measles epidemic years post vaccine introduction but pre-Wakefield. My intended point being; we might not suddenly return to the 1800's if we take a minute and do some safety studies on the vaccines we use today.

You then declared the information I shared to be completely irrelevant
because of your ignorance of the existence of bacterium based vaccines
and what you thought that implied about the importance of hygiene.
Presented with new (to you) information you didn't even pause to
consider, you jumped right back into arguing. You may have
admitted to being wrong, but only before launching into another tirade about how illogical "my argument" was. Since it's not all about you, I went
ahead and posted complete, accurate information, for others who may be
following along.

For the record, my argument is; first, do no harm. My argument is; informed consent should be based on real, accurate, meaningful and relevant information - and if that information doesn't exist yet, we need to go looking for it.

Originally Posted by jinx

No, see, it's not a red herring... It started with you suggesting that Jenny McCarthy and all her anti-vaccine minions are causing MMR uptake to decline - which would then cause measles epidemic and OmGZ!!!11! polio too!!!

I posted statistics which show that measles(along with several other communicable diseases) was in decline (98% decrease) for decades prior to the introduction of the applicable vaccines, if any were even introduced at all. I also posted information showing that there were measles epidemic years post vaccine introduction but pre-Wakefield. My intended point being; we might not suddenly return to the 1800's if we take a minute and do some safety studies on the vaccines we use today.

You then declared the information I shared to be completely irrelevant
because of your ignorance of the existence of bacterium based vaccines
and what you thought that implied about the importance of hygiene.
Presented with new (to you) information you didn't even pause to
consider, you jumped right back into arguing. You may have
admitted to being wrong, but only before launching into another tirade about how illogical "my argument" was. Since it's not all about you, I went
ahead and posted complete, accurate information, for others who may be
following along.

For the record, my argument is; first, do no harm. My argument is; informed consent should be based on real, accurate, meaningful and relevant information - and if that information doesn't exist yet, we need to go looking for it.

Unless I missed an entire post of yours, I already explained why the statistics you posted weren't relevant, Jinx, and I can't for the life of me figure out why you still think they are. You and LJ have consistently gone with hysteria and namecalling over rational discussion, and I really just can't take you seriously at all.

This, however, is totally relevant:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0v_85tAey9s

[TheMercenary]

Originally Posted by jinx

My argument is; informed consent should be based on real, accurate, meaningful and relevant information - and if that information doesn't exist yet, we need to go looking for it.

Here in lies the problem with most people when it comes to health care and any issue surrounding it, whether it be factual data about the risks and issues or the politics. The majority of Americans are quite ignorant about the issues, risks, benefits, and or relevant data available. I would estimate that a good 85% of patients get their information from the baby channel, CNN, or their equally ignorant family. Yea it's a big problem.