Impeding changes to our Health Care system

[sugarpop]

Originally Posted by TheMercenary

You are completely mis-informed. Medicare denies coverage on a daily basis. Like most insurance programs they require pre-approval and they are among the worst.

I don't think Medicare is going to let someone die of cancer when there is treatment available. You certainly don't hear stories about people going into bankruptcy or losing their home and life savings because Medicare wouldn't treat them. You DO hear those stories about private insurance.

Really? Who are those? Hollywood talking heads?

I hardly think Donnie Deutsch or Warren Buffet are Hollywood talking heads, and I've heard both of them say that. In fact, Donnie Deutsche said the other day on Morning Joe the best way to pay for health care would be to get the top 100,000 people to pay an additional $100,000 in taxes.

[TheMercenary]

Originally Posted by sugarpop

I don't think Medicare is going to let someone die of cancer when there is treatment available. You certainly don't hear stories about people going into bankruptcy or losing their home and life savings because Medicare wouldn't treat them. You DO hear those stories about private insurance.



I hardly think Donnie Deutsch or Warren Buffet are Hollywood talking heads, and I've heard both of them say that. In fact, Donnie Deutsche said the other day on Morning Joe the best way to pay for health care would be to get the top 100,000 people to pay an additional $100,000 in taxes.

I just want the bottom 60% to pay thier fair share.

[sugarpop]

Originally Posted by TheMercenary

I just want the bottom 60% to pay thier fair share.

What is their "fair" share?
When you make BILLIONS of dollars you can certainly afford to pay a LOT more %-wise than if you are living paycheck to paycheck. Honestly, what do you think those people do with all that money? They can never spend it all. Since this country (and the people of this country) helped them become successful, they should certainly return the favor by investing back into this country, and those citizens. But they don't. They screw us by taking jobs overseas to cheaper labor markets, and they move their offices offshore so they get out of paying taxes, and they get subsidies from the government to offset things that, really, THEY should be paying for, not our taxes, and they quit paying for benefits for their employees, and all the other tricks of the trade they use to get out of giving back.

And you know, if wages had kept up with the cost of living, this wouldn't be as much of an issue as it is. But they haven't. Millions of people today are living on LESS than people lived on during the 70s. Pathetic. And we expect them to be able to afford isurance?

[classicman]

"A billion here, a billion there, sooner or later it adds up to real money."
- Everett Dirksen

[TheMercenary]

Originally Posted by sugarpop

What is their "fair" share?
When you make BILLIONS of dollars you can certainly afford to pay a LOT more %-wise than if you are living paycheck to paycheck. Honestly, what do you think those people do with all that money? They can never spend it all. Since this country (and the people of this country) helped them become successful, they should certainly return the favor by investing back into this country, and those citizens. But they don't. They screw us by taking jobs overseas to cheaper labor markets, and they move their offices offshore so they get out of paying taxes, and they get subsidies from the government to offset things that, really, THEY should be paying for, not our taxes, and they quit paying for benefits for their employees, and all the other tricks of the trade they use to get out of giving back.

And you know, if wages had kept up with the cost of living, this wouldn't be as much of an issue as it is. But they haven't. Millions of people today are living on LESS than people lived on during the 70s. Pathetic. And we expect them to be able to afford isurance?

Ummmmmmmmmmmmmm.... I no longer give a shit. Everyone needs to feel the pain. Everyone needs to pay.

[Bitman]

Originally Posted by sugarpop

They have also been talking about rewarding doctors for preventative treatment on patients ...

It's not the doctor's responsibility to take care of your body, it's *yours*. We need to given *you* an incentive to stay healthy -- by making you pay for your own health.

Another thing that is a major problem is the cost of care in the last few months of life. We need to find a way to reduce those costs.

It's physically impossible. If it costs less to extend your life, then you will live longer .. which increases the costs. It either costs an infinite amount of money to keep you alive, or someone must declare it's time for you to die. Who do you trust with that responsibility?

Here is a list of a few executive salaries for 2006-7

You're just trolling now. Capitalism is founded on people keeping what they earn. If you don't like it, you're free to attack capitalism. But don't go posting this crap pretending it has anything to do with health care.

I'm afraid this won't get done because Obama is cowtowing to the very same people who have held up health care reform for the past century.

That would be me. And I thank him for it.

Really, if republicans and the AMA and insurance companies had such great ideas on how to fix it, how come they haven't done anything? In my opinion they shouldn't get to have any input.

Now I'm confused. You want the government to take over health care, yet you admit they have no clue how to run it. What exactly are you arguing?

[Bitman]

Originally Posted by sugarpop

Donnie Deutsche said the other day on Morning Joe the best way to pay for health care would be to get the top 100,000 people to pay an additional $100,000 in taxes.

I'll take that bet: $100,000*100,000 = $10 billion. There are a quarter billion people in the states, so that gives us .. $40 per person per year. Problem solved.

France does have the best health care system in the world, according to the WHO.
http://www.photius.com/rankings/healthranks.html

I recommend you read that link, it's quite informative. Especially this gem:

Originally Posted by that article

The World Health Organization's ranking of the world's health systems was last produced in 2000, and the WHO no longer produces such a ranking table, because of the complexity of the task.

So the WHO posted a questionable report, then just gave up altogether. But wait, why does a page on "photius.com" have a "geography.org" header? Maybe we should visit the actual press release. Sure enough, near the top, they report that the US is number 37. But if you keep reading ...

Originally Posted by The Who

Responsiveness: The nations with the most responsive health systems are the United States, Switzerland, Luxembourg, Denmark, Germany, Japan, Canada, Norway, Netherlands and Sweden.

US is first, France is missing.

Originally Posted by The Who

Fairness of financial contribution: ... Colombia was the top-rated country in this category, followed by Luxembourg, Belgium, Djibouti, Denmark, Ireland, Germany, Norway, Japan and Finland.

France and US are both missing.

Let's see if Google can tell us what's so great about France. How about this one?

The working population has twenty percent of their gross salary deducted at source to fund the social security system.

How much health care could you buy for 20% of your income? If you put that in a 401K, you think it might cover your retirement? Boy, I bet those doctors are well paid.

However, 56 percent of physicians work in private practices because of the difficult working conditions in hospitals.

Yikes. Well, how about this one:

The French system is also not inexpensive. At $3,500 per capita it is one of the most costly in Europe, yet that is still far less than the $6,100 per person in the United States.

That's not so bad. Unless it's on top of the 20% social security tax. Just one more:

Hospital facilities, although greatly expanded since World War II, are still considered inadequate. Doctors tend to be concentrated in the cities and are in short supply in some rural areas. The death rate, life expectancy, and infant mortality rate are similar to those of other industrialized nations.

While the US system may be troubled, but France is certainly not the utopia you make it out to be.

[Urbane Guerrilla]

This rubs our noses in the underperformance of the welfare state, and in its costliness -- for those of us who weren't with it enough to know already.

Socialism does not work; socialized medicine does not work. Reject both, for ever. Vote out anybody caught trying to vote it in. The Democrats are sowing the seeds of their own destruction.

[TheMercenary]

At Bitman: :

[Shawnee123]

I'll take that bet: $100,000*100,000 = $10 billion. There are a quarter billion people in the states, so that gives us .. $40 per person per year. Problem solved.

How much is that per the estimated 46 million uninsured?

Think how much more we could save if male vanity drugs like Viagra weren't paid for (I would be willing to offset this savings by PAYING for birth control pills.)

[TheMercenary]

I don't know about your area, but down here you can get BCP at the public health department and a pretty big discount.

[Happy Monkey]

Originally Posted by Bitman

It's physically impossible. If it costs less to extend your life, then you will live longer .. which increases the costs. It either costs an infinite amount of money to keep you alive, or someone must declare it's time for you to die. Who do you trust with that responsibility?

Someone whose profit potential is not increased by my death.

Insurance companies pay their shareholders out of the money they take in as premiums, but don't pay out in claims. And they are primarily beholden to their shareholders.

They complain that they couldn't compete with a program with no profit motive. That sounds like a plus to me.

[Shawnee123]

Originally Posted by TheMercenary

I don't know about your area, but down here you can get BCP at the public health department and a pretty big discount.

YOu can get VIAGRA for FREE from Medicare.

Makes sense, huh? It shows that old pasty men are in charge. Always will be.

Now excuse me, I have to go buy a 10 dollar box of tampons.

[classicman]

Good job of posting some excellent links Bitman. Lotta good info there.
Hope you don't wait over a year to post again.

[Bitman]

Originally Posted by Happy Monkey

Someone whose profit potential is not increased by my death.

And who would that be? Your immediate family would love to keep you around, but the rest of us would rather use the space you take up for ourselves.

*You* are the only person who can make that decision correctly, and you can only make it if you directly control your own health.

The rest of your post was a rag on capitalism, which is not relevant here. I'm happy to grant insurance companies all the profit they can make, but only where health insurance is the right thing to do, and only where these companies can compete.