Impeding changes to our Health Care system

[classicman]

Why can't the Gov't repeal the law that doesn't allow them to do so. That in itself would ... oh nevermind.

[TheMercenary]

Originally Posted by Happy Monkey

I agree, to a great extent, but unfortunately corporations are often the only ones big enough to negotiate good deals with the insurance companies,

Very true. And that fits the capitalistic model. Volume pricing will always get a better deal than you can get on your own.

and (I think) it's harder for them to kick people out of the corporate plan than it is for them to boot sick individuals.

True, but they can charge you higher premiums based on your individual case to offset the standard and set fee the employer pays for your insurance. The employer certainly is not going to pay more. And each year the insurance company can and does increase premiums to the employee with little change or in many cases less coverage.

[TheMercenary]

For a side by side comparison of all the plans floating around congress, select all in each of the two boxes. It will come up as a PDF file.

http://www.kff.org/healthreform/sidebyside.cfm

[sugarpop]

Originally Posted by TheMercenary

Ummmmmmmmmmmmmm.... I no longer give a shit. Everyone needs to feel the pain. Everyone needs to pay.

You mean everyone but the uber rich, right? Because you always defend them, no matter how wrong they are.

[TheMercenary]

Originally Posted by sugarpop

You mean everyone but the uber rich, right? Because you always defend them, no matter how wrong they are.

Bull shit. They should pay the same percentage as I have to pay, 33%. Eveyone should pay the same.

[sugarpop]

Originally Posted by TheMercenary

Bull shit. They should pay the same percentage as I have to pay, 33%. Eveyone should pay the same.

I disagree. I think the more money you have, the higher a percentage you should pay. I know we will NEVER agree on this subject though, so I'm dropping it now.

[TheMercenary]

Originally Posted by sugarpop

I disagree. I think the more money you have, the higher a percentage you should pay. I know we will NEVER agree on this subject though, so I'm dropping it now.

Good, but don't post bull shit that I support the uber rich. They, and you, and everyone else should pay the same percentage, what ever that is...

[Bitman]

Originally Posted by Happy Monkey

There's no plan that will affect the ability of the wealthy to self-finance their own treatment. But if I'm on a health plan, I'd trust a government bureaucrat over a health insurance company.

I don't understand your point ... You support a plan where only the wealthy can choose their only treatment, while the middle class is stuck with the federal standard treatment? I'd prefer a system where everyone can choose their treatment.

Originally Posted by many people

automotive insurance

This automotive comparison really doesn't work. The government mandates liability insurance, which covers your damage to other people's property. Comprehensive insurance covers damage to your own property, and is totally optional. Health insurance is like comprehensive. And yes, I really believe it should be optional.

Originally Posted by Clodfobble

You are giving $1000+ a year to your car insurance company to pay for someone else's car wreck. You will get no refund when you stop driving, even if you've never had a wreck in your life. How is that not socialism?

No, you're paying $1000/yr for your own wrecks. I pay $350/yr for mine. It might be a kind of socialism, but it's arguable -- only people with cars pay car insurance. Conversely, people who have no children still pay for public schools.

Originally Posted by TheMercenary

Very true. And that fits the capitalistic model. Volume pricing will always get a better deal than you can get on your own.

No, it's not true at all. Negotiation may be able to get a good deal (depending on the skill and drive of the negotiators) but only competition can get the best price. (And there's no guarantee the government negotiators will be any good.)

And wait, there's another gaping hole in this meme -- Who is this single seller we're having such a hard time getting good prices from?

[Bitman]

One more thing -- The USA is already running an annual deficit. Every dollar a health plan would require must come from at least one extra dollar in taxes.

[Happy Monkey]

Originally Posted by Bitman

I don't understand your point ... You support a plan where only the wealthy can choose their only treatment, while the middle class is stuck with the federal standard treatment? I'd prefer a system where everyone can choose their treatment.

Me too, but I don't expect medical care to be free any time soon. The next closest thing would be single payer, which is a non-starter at this point. So my choices are going to be made through a health plan of some sort. And if someone is going to be in charge of deciding what treatments I can get, I don't want it to be someone who gets to keep any money they don't use to pay for my treatment.

[TheMercenary]

Originally Posted by Happy Monkey

And if someone is going to be in charge of deciding what treatments I can get, I don't want it to be someone who gets to keep any money they don't use to pay for my treatment.

That is the system we already have. If you pay for insurance that is what you get now. Same in an HMO. Same for any plan the Federal government is going to offer.

[Happy Monkey]

Originally Posted by TheMercenary

That is the system we already have. If you pay for insurance that is what you get now. Same in an HMO. Same for any plan the Federal government is going to offer.

Yes, yes, yes, and probably not.

We don't know yet exactly what the government plan is going to be, but I don't think it is a big stretch to hope that it isn't going to be paying shareholders out of the money they don't spend on medical costs.

[TheMercenary]

Originally Posted by Happy Monkey

Yes, yes, yes, and probably not.

We don't know yet exactly what the government plan is going to be, but I don't think it is a big stretch to hope that it isn't going to be paying shareholders out of the money they don't spend on medical costs.

No, they will be paying for it out of our taxes. And if you think this is going to be better I have bridge in Arizona to sell you.

[Happy Monkey]

Originally Posted by Happy Monkey

... it isn't going to be paying shareholders out of the money they don't spend on medical costs.

Originally Posted by TheMercenary

No, they will be paying for it out of our taxes.

The Federal plan will be paying shareholders? So they'll have both tax funding and investors? Like I said, nobody knows what it will look like at this point, but IMHO that's unlikely.

[TheMercenary]

Meaning the share holders, us the US public, you know the portion that pays income tax, will be paying for it.

And the latest news is that the major hospital associations will be chipping in a huge portion in savings for the federal plan as well. Guess who is going to pay for thier missing bit? All the rest of those who pay for their health care now, not the portion who get it for free, as they do now. Guess what, costs are not going to go up for the rest of those who pay. You think the CEO's and hospitals are just going to cut their profits? Don't count on that. They will be protected under any new plan.