Iranian thugs killing protestors

[Urbane Guerrilla]

As a matter of fact, shonny, I did. Recently, 'tis true. [/old-guy voice]

It'sh really hard to do old guy voische with tongue in cheek...

[sugarpop]

Originally Posted by ZenGum

I hate the religious nutcase bastards.
But I don't think the protestors have either the nerve, the organisation, the weapons, or the numbers, to make a successful revolution.
And what I guess will happen is that the genie will be stomped back into the bottle, then over the next year or two the clerics and their thugs will be extra ruthless in dealing with any reformers, progressives, etc.
The failure of this revolution will probably set the cause of revolution back. The only positive I take from this is that many, many Iranian people ahve seen that the electionw as a fraud, have seen that their government is a tyranny clingin to power by violence, and discontent will fester and spread. There WILL be another round, but it's going to be a while coming.

Unless we point out to the Iranians that when a country allows an election to be stolen by a religious whacko with a beligerent foreign policy, that country does not prosper in the long term. If only we had an example....

I have more faith in the Iranian people than that. OTOH, (I believe it was) Reza Aslan said the other day that Iran was at a turning point, and it would either end up like N. Korea, or China. Every person of Iranian descent that I have seen speak about this on TV has agreed the Iran of yesterday is no more. It will never be the same. That could be very good, or very bad.

[piercehawkeye45]

Originally Posted by sugarpop

I have more faith in the Iranian people than that. OTOH, (I believe it was) Reza Aslan said the other day that Iran was at a turning point, and it would either end up like N. Korea, or China. Every person of Iranian descent that I have seen speak about this on TV has agreed the Iran of yesterday is no more. It will never be the same. That could be very good, or very bad.

I am uncomfortable comparing Iran to any other past country because it is so different from any other country. There are two polarized forces tearing Iran apart at the moment, liberalizing youth urban population and militarized government, each of which can swing Iran in any different direction. Though unfortunately, the military and Revolutionary Guard are both conservative and for limitation so an overthrow of the current government is not a realistic option at the moment.

[ZenGum]

TV news said: a bunch of dissident clerics have dissed the election results and panned the supreme council for being biased in favour of Ahmedinejad.

[sugarpop]

Originally Posted by piercehawkeye45

I am uncomfortable comparing Iran to any other past country because it is so different from any other country. There are two polarized forces tearing Iran apart at the moment, liberalizing youth urban population and militarized government, each of which can swing Iran in any different direction. Though unfortunately, the military and Revolutionary Guard are both conservative and for limitation so an overthrow of the current government is not a realistic option at the moment.

What was meant by that statement, is Iran could become even more reclusive and militarized (i.e. N. Korea) or it could become more open, democratic and capitalist (i.e. China).

[piercehawkeye45]

Generalizing, those are the two forces pulling Iran apart at the moment. The mullahs and military want the militarized state and the urban population want a more liberal state.

In reality it is much more complicated (I don't fully understand it either) since there is a large liberal force within the mullahs and the general Iranian population is not pro-western plus a shitload of other reasons but that is a basic overview.

[sugarpop]

I agree. I was simply repeating something that an Iranian-American said. I don't think he meant it quite so literally either. And, the Iranian people have good cause not to trust us, or well, our government I should say. I think, in general, the Iranian people aren't so anti-American as they are anti-American government.

[piercehawkeye45]

Originally Posted by sugarpop

I agree. I was simply repeating something that an Iranian-American said. I don't think he meant it quite so literally either. And, the Iranian people have good cause not to trust us, or well, our government I should say. I think, in general, the Iranian people aren't so anti-American as they are anti-American government.

It varies on where they live, how old they are, and how they were raised. Though keep in mind that the views of Iranian-Americans tend to differ from Iranians because many left during the Islamic Revolution in 1979. They will be biased just like going down to Florida to talk to Cuban-Americans.

[sugarpop]

Well that particular person has relatives still living there, as do many of the people who have been on political shows talking about this issue.

I have known quite a few Persians in my life. Some with relatives still there, some not. They are a generally a great group of people, in my experience, although still very patriarchal in nature. They love living here though, and most of them are citizens now.

[spudcon]

Originally Posted by sugarpop

I think, in general, the Iranian people aren't so anti-American as they are anti-American government.

I think that goes for many Americans too.

[sugarpop]

Certainly goes for me, in general...

[sugarpop]

I watched a really interesting show about our relations with Iran over the past 35 years recently on National Gerographic TV. It was called Iran and the West. You should check it out when it comes on again.

http://channel.nationalgeographic.co...-3337/Overview

http://www.monstersandcritics.com/sm...entary_June_22