Impeding changes to our Health Care system

[TheMercenary]

Originally Posted by DanaC

Since y'all (the US) have been so forthcoming about the failings of the NHS in recent weeks, our news media has stepped up to defend it. An interesting take on the current American system, and the well-meaning and hard-working medics, doctors, nurses, dentists ,opticians et al who are desperately trying to plug the gaps by working for free:

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/top-sto...5875-21602170/

That story made the circuit here around 3 weeks ago. NPR did a great 2 part segment on the group.

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/s...ryId=111676259

http://www.npr.org/templates/transcr...ryId=111676259

[Kitsune]

Originally Posted by TheMercenary

And to take some small countries plans and to try to adopt it in the US would make it be doomed to failure. We need to figure it out, but we do not need to rush it and all the details need to be spelled out before the plan is implemented.

I hope we get the details figured out. Our system is a complete joke.

NATION: United Kingdom
SERVICE: National Health Service (NHS)
MODEL: socialized medicine
HOW IT WORKS: All hospitals are government-owned. All doctors are government employees. Every citizen is guaranteed a basic level of healthcare. Private insurance exists to cover any gaps in the government system.
AMERICAN COUNTERPART: Veterans Health Administration (VHA)
COST: 40% as expensive as American system

NATION: Canada
SERVICE: Medicare
MODEL: single-payer system
HOW IT WORKS: Most doctors and hospitals are in the private sector. All medical bills are payed by the government. Every citizen is guaranteed a basic level of healthcare. Private insurance exists to cover any gaps in the government system.
AMERICAN COUNTERPART: Medicare (limited to age 65+)
COST: 33% as expensive as American system

NATION: Switzerland
SERVICE: private health co-ops
HOW IT WORKS: Insurance is all private, but regulation and subsidies ensure everyone receives fair and affordable coverage.
AMERICAN COUNTERPART: None, yet.
COST: 67% as expensive as American system

NATION: United States
SERVICE: private insurance
HOW IT WORKS: Insurance is expensive and tied to your employer, who takes it out of your salary. Individual insurance is just as bad, or worse. Having insurance doesn't guarantee coverage, as the profit-driven insurers have financial incentive to disqualify you from coverage if you get sick or injured so they don't have to pay for your care. Tens of millions don't have any insurance at all.
AMERICAN COUNTERPART: n/a
COST: Most expensive system on Earth.

[jinx]

As a family, we pay over $8,000 a year for insurance, plus copays when we use. We use it for check ups - 1 each per year for the kids, doctors and dentist, and one for me at the gyno. I'm the only one in the family on a prescribed med (birth control), which costs $20 (co-pay) every 3 mos.

I don't want to pay any more. We pay too much for what we use of it, but as responsible parents we cannot be without it.

Pharmaceutical companies make billions in profits ever year. Start there if you want to lay the blame of the uninsured at someone's feet - not mine. I have no problem with everyone having access to a basic standard of care, it makes sense all around. But I think as long as people to can choose to be professional students, or have their own struggling business instead of working for the man, or take time off to travel, paint, discover themselves etc... - they shouldn't have the right to take more from me to cover their ass when they get sick or hurt.

If everyone pays in, the same amount per human - then I'm all for it. If people who use more are expected to pay more - then I'm all for it. If it's team politics and those who support 'the war' are expected to pay more because they go to work and collect a bigger paycheck - fuck that.

The problem as I see it is that health care costs too damn much. If the average american can't afford it, it doesn't work. Start there. Throwing more money at the problem with only make the problem worse in the long run, and I'm not for that either.

[Griff]

A coop model seems to have a lot going for it if you could keep it small enough to keep on track but large enough to smooth out big outlays...

[DanaC]

Originally Posted by jinx

The problem as I see it is that health care costs too damn much. If the average american can't afford it, it doesn't work. Start there. Throwing more money at the problem with only make the problem worse in the long run, and I'm not for that either.

But surely that is the suggested plan, in effect? By providing government backed/led insurance to those who need it or want it, the government is making insurance affordable. By mandating some kind of cover then people who can't afford private insurance aren't turning up at A&E for basic healthcare and pushing up the premiums for everyone else.

[TheMercenary]

From what I have been reading the Co-ops seem to be nothing more than another form of a big business getting insurance for a group, even if a non-profit, they have to make money to keep the co-op running and pay the board and president, etc. They in turn just go to regular insurance companies and get insurance for their members, hopefully at a lower price. The down side is that without real insurance reform you just put another layer between you and the doctor.

http://patients.about.com/od/healthc...rancecoops.htm

NPR had a good interview about them today with people representing both sides. I can't get the link to work.

[TheMercenary]

An interesting take on the Cooperative model

http://www.newsobserver.com/opinion/...y/1634262.html

[TheMercenary]

Talking points on health care

I don’t know about you, but I’ve reached the point where I’d rather scope out blue zircon rings on the QVC Shopping Channel than endure the braying of opposing partisans on cable about the leviathan health care plan being debated in Washington. It no longer interests me where you stand on it. What interests me now is, what do you know about it?

http://www.boston.com/news/local/mas...n_health_care/

[richlevy]

I still find this shocking. This company treats people in hotspots all over the world. What's amazing is the level of need in Los Angeles. For a large segment of the population, America is a third world country when it comes to health care.

When Remote Area Medical, the Tennessee-based organization running the event, decided to try its hand at large urban medical services, its principals thought Los Angeles would be a good place to start. But they were far from prepared for the outpouring of need. Set up for eight days of care, the group was already overwhelmed on the first day after allowing 1,500 people through the door, nearly 500 of whom had still not been served by day’s end and had to return in the wee hours Wednesday morning.
The enormous response to the free care was a stark corollary to the hundreds of Americans who have filled town-hall-style meetings throughout the country, angrily expressing their fear of the Obama administration’s proposed changes to the nation’s health care system. The bleachers of patients also reflected the state’s high unemployment, recent reduction in its Medicaid services for the poor and high deductibles and co-payments that have come to define many employer-sponsored insurance programs.

[xoxoxoBruce]

Why are you shocked? Were you unaware that half (made up internet statistic) of Los Angeles is third word people who have invaded the US?

[richlevy]

Originally Posted by xoxoxoBruce

Why are you shocked? Were you unaware that half (made up internet statistic) of Los Angeles is third word people who have invaded the US?

I wish we could have carded the people in that stadium. I'll bet most were US citizens or legal residents. You don't have to be an illegal immigrant to be poor and uninsured or under-insured in this country.

[DanaC]

Both the examples mentioned in the article were US citizens. One a woman who having worked for twenty years in the same company has lost her job and is unable to get treatment for a heart condition. Another a retired man whose insurance ran out before his dentures had been finished. Both Americans who've worked their whole life and have slipped through the net. One whose pre existing heart condition meant she was unable to get insurance after her employee insurance no longer covered her and the other a man who slipped into the doughnut hole.

[xoxoxoBruce]

Originally Posted by richlevy

I wish we could have carded the people in that stadium. I'll bet most were US citizens or legal residents. You don't have to be an illegal immigrant to be poor and uninsured or under-insured in this country.

No you don't, but that in no way negates my statement that half of LA is third world.
There is also the allure of something free, that brings people out of the woodwork.
I'd bet that most of the problems they treated were not serious enough to compel the patient to make the effort to go to the ER or find a clinic.
Put together free, definite time/place, and some condition people keep saying, "I ought to get that checked out" but don't bother, and you have the perfect storm.

[xoxoxoBruce]

Originally Posted by DanaC

Both the examples mentioned in the article were US citizens. One a woman who having worked for twenty years in the same company has lost her job and is unable to get treatment for a heart condition. Another a retired man whose insurance ran out before his dentures had been finished. Both Americans who've worked their whole life and have slipped through the net. One whose pre existing heart condition meant she was unable to get insurance after her employee insurance no longer covered her and the other a man who slipped into the doughnut hole.

Two out of thousands? Why do you think they picked those two?

[Undertoad]

They did free acupuncture for pain. Which is great, because if people believe Qi adjustment is medicine, it can be administered by non-doctors in non-medical facilities at a much cheaper rate. Already a huge cost savings!

I am willing to buy some aromatherapy candles for the uninsured. But I will not pay for their chiropractic sessions.