Impeding changes to our Health Care system

[Shawnee123]

Originally Posted by dar512

Shaun of the Dead quote?

Uh, no, I made it up off the top of my head, on the fly, out of thin air. lol

Is it? I've never seen that one.

[Shawnee123]

Originally Posted by jinx

Well that's not true.... there are walk in clinics, I've been to one a few times. They don't deal with insurance at all, just cash.

I just don't understand how the illegal immigration issue can be ignored when reforming health care. I'm not saying I have the answer... but I also didn't run for president.

Yeah, not in smaller towns. Certainly not at night.

[TheMercenary]

I agree completely Shaunee123.

I completely support the need for changes in the system.

[Clodfobble]

Originally Posted by jinx

I just don't understand how the illegal immigration issue can be ignored when reforming health care. I'm not saying I have the answer... but I also didn't run for president.

I think it's mostly because the illegal immigration issue has so much of its own baggage that healthcare reform could never get passed if it even touched on the issue, at least in appearances. But if you think about it, I think this plan absolutely will affect the illegal immigrant problem, they just can't talk about that aspect of it without riling everyone up for a totally different debate.

Right now, an illegal goes to the ER to get an antibiotic, the hospital asks for money/insurance, they get little or none, and they may even have a direct admission that the patient is illegal--down here, it's not usually a big secret, because what are they realistically gonna do about it? Hospitals don't call INS, and INS doesn't do anything even when they are called. The only way illegals really ever get reliably deported is if they commit a crime.* And this proposed bill will make it a crime to be without health insurance, and guarantees the hospital will call someone about it. I think it will have a huge effect on illegals, in the long run.


*Yes yes, Merc, they're already committing a crime, but you know what I mean.

[jinx]

Who will the hospitals call?

[Kitsune]

So we implement healthcare reform and the ER line goes down, except for the illegals -- still an improvement. In terms of health care reform, there are exactly two options open for dealing with illegal immigrants: provide them healthcare as well or turn them away entirely. Guess which of these options no doctor would ever attempt?

To say we shouldn't pass healthcare reform because of illegals is cutting off our nose to spite our face.

[TheMercenary]

Originally Posted by Kitsune

To say we shouldn't pass healthcare reform because of illegals is cutting off our nose to spite our face.

I don't think anyone has stated that, only that it needs to be addressed.

[jinx]

Originally Posted by Kitsune

To say we shouldn't pass healthcare reform because of illegals is cutting off our nose to spite our face.

To say this suggests that you KNOW for CERTAIN that proposed heath care reform will be successful and beneficial - and you don't. It may be your opinion that it will be - just like it is my concern that over-medication will be on the rise and actual quality of care will suffer. But again, we can't know these things at this point.

To suggest that people shouldn't ask questions and actually try to understand what will happen is doesn't benefit anyone.

[Radar]

Originally Posted by Shawnee123

So rather than make things better for the deserving citizens it's better to not change anything because the illegals will still get care? What do you propose to change that part (assuming as you said that the problem is that part won't change in the current proprosal; it's not addressed) that would make the proposal to your liking? I don't get the logic. Don't change it because the millions it will benefit won't negate the small percentage who get around the system?

Exactly. It's better to screw the 95% of the population out of health care reform even because 5% who are here without papers might get help when they are sick too.

[Radar]

Originally Posted by TheMercenary

I don't have the solution. Really. But they are costing taxpayers millions if not billions of dollars every year. Maybe we should send the bill to their home country governments or withhold $ from aid programs in direct proportion to the costs of the healthcare. I do know that they need to come up with a plan and they need to address the issue.

Wrong. Undocumented immigrants don't cost American citizens a single penny when everything is accounted for. They contribute more money into the economy and the tax base than they use in social services. This is an irrefutable fact.

When Americans are visiting the UK and they get hurt, do you know what happens? They get medical care and no bill. Why? Because not giving medical care to someone in need is inhuman and asinine.

[Radar]

Originally Posted by TheMercenary

People die outside the ER and in the waiting room all the time. Usually because of the long wait and poor triage. I know there were some cases of patient dumping that happened in Texas a while back but laws were changed to prevent it. I am sure people die because hospitals go on divert and cannot accept patients as well.

The wait for the E.R. wouldn't be so long if everyone could get cheap or free preventative care, but the insurance companies have prevented this so far. Luckily for us, President Obama will make sure a law is passed which will reduce the long wait in emergency rooms and reduce the costs from E.R. visits vs. regular doctor appointments.

[Radar]

Originally Posted by jinx

Well that's not true.... there are walk in clinics, I've been to one a few times. They don't deal with insurance at all, just cash.

I just don't understand how the illegal immigration issue can be ignored when reforming health care. I'm not saying I have the answer... but I also didn't run for president.

There is no illegal immigration issue. There are no illegal immigrants.

[TheMercenary]

Originally Posted by Radar

Wrong. Undocumented immigrants don't cost American citizens a single penny when everything is accounted for. They contribute more money into the economy and the tax base than they use in social services. This is an irrefutable fact.

When Americans are visiting the UK and they get hurt, do you know what happens? They get medical care and no bill. Why? Because not giving medical care to someone in need is inhuman and asinine.

Wrong. We have been through this before and I am not going to go through it with you again. The benifits are not directly reimbursed to the hospitals and healthcare providers, if they were it would be a non-issue. The costs for everyone go up for people who have to pay and or have insurance when others who get care get it for free. Market forces at work. This is an irrefutable fact.

[jinx]

Originally Posted by Radar

There is no illegal immigration issue. There are no illegal immigrants.

Yes, and America does not extend west of the Mississippi, we've been over this.

[TheMercenary]

Originally Posted by Radar

There is no illegal immigration issue. There are no illegal immigrants.

Take your head out.

http://danoday.com/blog/wp-content/u...HeadInSand.gif