Impeding changes to our Health Care system

[Clodfobble]

That's 2% of people who say right now that they know for sure they would choose it (presumably because they have no other choice.) If the plan actually got in place, and we were able to directly compare costs/coverage to our current plan, it's entirely possible we'd sign up for it if it were better. I bet other people would do the same.

[xoxoxoBruce]

Originally Posted by Redux

snip~
But it is far from a European socialist model or the first step in a secret plan to move the country to a single payer system.

Unfortunately.

Originally Posted by xoxoxoBruce

Unfortunately.

The "socialist card" was on display again in speeches and signs at yesterday's rally at the Capitol...even a couple of B actors chimed in:

"Obama has his own obsession to ram this health care bill through Congress and to turn America into a socialist country." -- Jon Voight

"Remember, these are Woodstock Democrats.Their philopsophy doesn't come from America it comes from overseas". -- John Ratzenberger

But the most offensive award goes to:

This sign with a pile of dead bodies from Dachau, titled "National Socialist Health Care, Dachau, Germany - 1945"

Just when you think they can't sink any lower....one (or many more) of those true freedom loving patriots will find a way.

And not one of the Republican leaders speaking at the rally condemned that prominently displayed (or any of the other ignorant and offensive) signs.

[TheMercenary]

The sign is offensive. The agenda of the the Demoncrats and Obama is a socialist one.

Originally Posted by TheMercenary

...The agenda of the the Demoncrats and Obama is a socialist one.

I dont doubt that patriotic non-partisan "real" Americans like you really believe it.

But then again, you believe Pelosi is a Nazi.....which IMO is not all that different than the sign you agree is offensive.

[TheMercenary]

Originally Posted by Redux

I dont doubt that patriotic non-partisan "real" Americans like you really believe it.

But then again, you believe Pelosi is a Nazi.....which IMO is not all that different than the sign you agree is offensive.

That bitch is an oxygen thief.

[classicman]

The health bill that House Speaker Nancy Pelosi is bringing to a vote (H.R. 3962) is 1,990 pages. Here are some of the details you need to know.

What the government will require you to do:

• Sec. 202 (p. 91-92) of the bill requires you to enroll in a "qualified plan." If you get your insurance at work, your employer will have a "grace period" to switch you to a "qualified plan," meaning a plan designed by the Secretary of Health and Human Services. If you buy your own insurance, there's no grace period. You'll have to enroll in a qualified plan as soon as any term in your contract changes, such as the co-pay, deductible or benefit.

• Sec. 224 (p. 118) provides that 18 months after the bill becomes law, the Secretary of Health and Human Services will decide what a "qualified plan" covers and how much you'll be legally required to pay for it. That's like a banker telling you to sign the loan agreement now, then filling in the interest rate and repayment terms 18 months later.

On Nov. 2, the Congressional Budget Office estimated what the plans will likely cost. An individual earning $44,000 before taxes who purchases his own insurance will have to pay a $5,300 premium and an estimated $2,000 in out-of-pocket expenses, for a total of $7,300 a year, which is 17% of his pre-tax income. A family earning $102,100 a year before taxes will have to pay a $15,000 premium plus an estimated $5,300 out-of-pocket, for a $20,300 total, or 20% of its pre-tax income. Individuals and families earning less than these amounts will be eligible for subsidies paid directly to their insurer.

• Sec. 303 (pp. 167-168) makes it clear that, although the "qualified plan" is not yet designed, it will be of the "one size fits all" variety. The bill claims to offer choice—basic, enhanced and premium levels—but the benefits are the same. Only the co-pays and deductibles differ. You will have to enroll in the same plan, whether the government is paying for it or you and your employer are footing the bill.

• Sec. 59b (pp. 297-299) says that when you file your taxes, you must include proof that you are in a qualified plan. If not, you will be fined thousands of dollars. Illegal immigrants are exempt from this requirement.

• Sec. 412 (p. 272) says that employers must provide a "qualified plan" for their employees and pay 72.5% of the cost, and a smaller share of family coverage, or incur an 8% payroll tax. Small businesses, with payrolls from $500,000 to $750,000, are fined less.

Eviscerating Medicare:

In addition to reducing future Medicare funding by an estimated $500 billion, the bill fundamentally changes how Medicare pays doctors and hospitals, permitting the government to dictate treatment decisions.

• Sec. 1302 (pp. 672-692) moves Medicare from a fee-for-service payment system, in which patients choose which doctors to see and doctors are paid for each service they provide, toward what's called a "medical home."

The medical home is this decade's version of HMO-restrictions on care. A primary-care provider manages access to costly specialists and diagnostic tests for a flat monthly fee. The bill specifies that patients may have to settle for a nurse practitioner rather than a physician as the primary-care provider. Medical homes begin with demonstration projects, but the HHS secretary is authorized to "disseminate this approach rapidly on a national basis."

A December 2008 Congressional Budget Office report noted that "medical homes" were likely to resemble the unpopular gatekeepers of 20 years ago if cost control was a priority.

• Sec. 1114 (pp. 391-393) replaces physicians with physician assistants in overseeing care for hospice patients.

• Secs. 1158-1160 (pp. 499-520) initiates programs to reduce payments for patient care to what it costs in the lowest cost regions of the country. This will reduce payments for care (and by implication the standard of care) for hospital patients in higher cost areas such as New York and Florida.

• Sec. 1161 (pp. 520-545) cuts payments to Medicare Advantage plans (used by 20% of seniors). Advantage plans have warned this will result in reductions in optional benefits such as vision and dental care.

• Sec. 1402 (p. 756) says that the results of comparative effectiveness research conducted by the government will be delivered to doctors electronically to guide their use of "medical items and services."

Questionable Priorities:

While the bill will slash Medicare funding, it will also direct billions of dollars to numerous inner-city social work and diversity programs with vague standards of accountability.

• Sec. 399V (p. 1422) provides for grants to community "entities" with no required qualifications except having "documented community activity and experience with community healthcare workers" to "educate, guide, and provide experiential learning opportunities" aimed at drug abuse, poor nutrition, smoking and obesity. "Each community health worker program receiving funds under the grant will provide services in the cultural context most appropriate for the individual served by the program."

These programs will "enhance the capacity of individuals to utilize health services and health related social services under Federal, State and local programs by assisting individuals in establishing eligibility . . . and in receiving services and other benefits" including transportation and translation services.

• Sec. 222 (p. 617) provides reimbursement for culturally and linguistically appropriate services. This program will train health-care workers to inform Medicare beneficiaries of their "right" to have an interpreter at all times and with no co-pays for language services.

• Secs. 2521 and 2533 (pp. 1379 and 1437) establishes racial and ethnic preferences in awarding grants for training nurses and creating secondary-school health science programs. For example, grants for nursing schools should "give preference to programs that provide for improving the diversity of new nurse graduates to reflect changes in the demographics of the patient population." And secondary-school grants should go to schools "graduating students from disadvantaged backgrounds including racial and ethnic minorities."

• Sec. 305 (p. 189) Provides for automatic Medicaid enrollment of newborns who do not otherwise have insurance.

For the text of the bill with page numbers, see www.defendyourhealthcare.us.

Link

Originally Posted by classicman

Link

That is probably the most misleading misrepresentation of the bill I've seen...from who else but the queen of the "death panels for grandma" and "the government will make your health care decisions for you" - Betsy McHaughey!

I know she gives Merc a hard-on with her insightful perspective, but I thought you were more open-minded to the facts.

At the very least, you forgot to add that it is certainly a partisan piece (as you correctly noted in another recent partisan hit job on the truth about the health bill that you posted today)!

Added:
How is it misleading or just plain bullshit?

Start with her opening salvo:

What the government will require YOU to do....

Secs 202, 224, 303, 412....

...only apply to those currently w/o insurance and who would purchase insurance through the new Insurance Exchange.

And then she misrepresents the choices and options (and respective costs) of plans that would be available through the Exchange.

If YOU are currently insured through an employer-based plan, NONE of those sections apply to YOU or would impact your current plan or coverage in any way.

The rest of her bullshit is no better.

[classicman]

Sec. 202 (p. 91-92) of the bill requires you to enroll in a "qualified plan." If you get your insurance at work, your employer will have a "grace period" to switch you to a "qualified plan," meaning a plan designed by the Secretary of Health and Human Services. If you buy your own insurance, there's no grace period. You'll have to enroll in a qualified plan as soon as any term in your contract changes, such as the co-pay, deductible or benefit.

Huh - I wasn't aware this was a "hit job"

Originally Posted by classicman

Huh - I wasn't aware this was a "hit job"

There is absolutely no provision in the bill under which your "your employer WILL....switch you to a "qualified plan..."

In 2016, if you currently get your insurance at work, your employer MAY (not WILL), if they chose, "shop" on the Exchange for a new plan or additional plans to offer employees, providing more options, with different levels of coverage (and priced respectively) to employees than most companies currently provide.

Hell, if you get your insurance at work, there is currently nothing to prevent your employer from switching plans every year that would end up costing you more and covering less..and many employers are doing just that.

The bill will give you more options and greater protections.

[TheMercenary]

In a cameo in the White House briefing room yesterday, President Obama trumpeted the American Medical Association's endorsement of the House health-care plan. "These are men and women who know our health-care system best and have been watching this debate closely," he said of the doctors lobby.

Actually, what they've been watching is a formula that automatically cuts Medicare reimbursements to physicians—by 21.5% next year—and have made it clear that they'll endorse virtually anything, no matter how damaging to medicine, as a quid pro quo for eliminating this cut. They didn't get even that. Democrats amputated the "doc fix" from ObamaCare because preventing the cuts will cost more than $200 billion and pushes the price tag well above $1 trillion. They claim they'll instead pass a separate bill with the fix, adding all of that to the deficit.

President J. James Rohack was careful to note that the AMA was endorsing both bills as a package, and on a conference call with reporters he wouldn't say if he would pull support if ObamaCare passes and the doc fix doesn't. Yet that's what his political gullibility is likely to get his members. A Democratic revolt last month already killed the two-bill deception in the Senate in a sudden onset of fiscal sanity. In the stampede to pass ObamaCare, Democrats won't give even a passing thought to leaving the AMA behind—especially now, given that the group has shown how cheaply it can be bought.

Unmentioned by Mr. Obama was that 20 other physician groups came out against his health-care takeover yesterday, which they wrote "will threaten patient access and harm quality." Led by the American College of Surgeons, these doctors argued the Senate's bill "will do little to fix" health care's "underlying problems, and may make them worse." The letter was signed by groups representing neurological and orthopaedic surgeons, urologists, anesthesiologists, gynecological oncologists and others.

Mr. Rohack will also face an uprising among his own members at a meeting in Houston this weekend. But presumably Mr. Obama would say that all these men and women don't know our health-care system "best."

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000...218640066.html

[TheMercenary]

Originally Posted by Redux

There is absolutely no provision in the bill under which your "your employer WILL....switch you to a "qualified plan..."

In 2016, if you currently get your insurance at work, your employer MAY (not WILL), if they chose, "shop" on the Exchange for a new plan or additional plans to offer employees, providing more options, with different levels of coverage (and priced respectively) to employees than most companies currently provide.

Hell, if you get your insurance at work, there is currently nothing to prevent your employer from switching plans every year that would end up costing you more and covering less..and many employers are doing just that.

The bill will give you more options and greater protections.

Talk about bull shit. The "exchanges" are pure fantasy. There is absolutely nothing in the bill which says that any plan offered in the fantasy exchange is going to offer you "more options and greater protections". In fact it gives the insurance companies great leeway in what is offered and no evidence of cost control. There is nothing which controls how much an employer charges you as a chunk of your income, only a percent. As in most of the plans failures there is no cost control of health care with the exception of a few targeted areas.

[TheMercenary]

Read the essential elements of the bill here:

http://www.opencongress.org/bill/111-h3200/show

pdf
http://docs.house.gov/rules/health/111_ahcaa.pdf

Unmentioned by Mr. Obama was that 20 other physician groups came out against his health-care takeover yesterday, which they wrote "will threaten patient access and harm quality." Led by the American College of Surgeons, these doctors argued the Senate's bill "will do little to fix" health care's "underlying problems, and may make them worse."

Right.

Those physician groups prefer the more comprehensive House bill over the Senate bill:

On behalf of the more than 74,000 members of the American College of Surgeons, I write to express the College's support for the....America's Affordable Health Choices Act (HR 3962)...

In addition, the College supports the goals of HR 3962 that collectively expand coverage, promote and incentivize high quality health care and help to ensure patient access to surgical care...

We look forward to working with you to advance these important pieces of legislation....

http://www.facs.org/hcr/dingell110409.pdf

Originally Posted by TheMercenary

Talk about bull shit. The "exchanges" are pure fantasy.

Sounds like what the wingnuts said about Medicare 30+ years ago up until it was enacted and millions of seniors had access to affordable health care for the first time.

[TheMercenary]

Originally Posted by Redux

Sounds like what the wingnuts said about Medicare 30+ years ago up until it was enacted and millions of seniors had access to affordable health care for the first time.

Right. Tell that to those who note a 500 billion dollar cut to Medicare.