Vaccination & epidemic

[Undertoad]

Desiree Jennings' doctor, Dr. Buttar, tweets that Jennings has been seizure free for a week now, down from 60 seizures per day.

Robert Scott Bell, on the Michael Savage show, is supportive, happy that holistic and detoxification treatment medicine cured her, while Johns Hopkins can't cure dystonia, only treat it:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z5pnI-dDH7s

[classicman]

Rhodes also understands that there is a lot of changing information about H1N1, most of it a result of earlier misconceptions about how deadly the virus would turn out to be.

Data released by the CDC last week show at least 22 million Americans have contracted H1N1 since the outbreak began in April and 3,900 have died, including about 540 children.

The total is about three times the number of deaths the agency had been reporting. Previous figures were based on laboratory-confirmed cases, while the new number reflects the best estimate by agency epidemiologists.

The new numbers also suggest the toll from swine flu may approach that normally associated with seasonal flu. About 36,000 Americans die each year from the seasonal flu.

If there is a silver lining to the H1N1 virus, it is that so many people now have taken up good hygiene practices that will help stop the spread of flu in the future.

Those positive signs also were reflected in the latest poll, with 97 percent saying they plan to wash their hands more often and 84 percent saying they will use hand disinfectants.

In addition, Rhodes believes public perception about the H1N1 vaccine is changing, especially as more people are vaccinated and doubts begin to fade.

''Seeing is believing,'' he said. ''If you have a very active vaccine campaign in your own hometown and work sites and nothing bad happens, it's powerful proof.''

Link

Is that really proof or just supposition?

[Undertoad]

Desiree update: interviewed by Fox affiliate that first aired her story.

When Desiree arrived there more than three weeks ago, she was in acute respiratory distress. She could barely breathe, and there were concerns she just wouldn't make it.

"Her face was starting to get that purplish bluish tint because she couldn't get air. Twice I looked at my head nurse like we may need to call EMS," says Dr Buttar.

But 24-48 hours later, Desiree was stable. And when we paid her a visit, she was walking and laughing, and was seemingly on the road to recovery.

"Overall I think my spirits are higher. I definitely feel light-- I have a positive future. Hopefully all of this will get better," says Jennings.

She's no longer having any seizures. She can speak perfectly normal whenever talking about the past or the future but her voice changes whenever she speaks about the time period when she was sick which began in early September.

Dr. Buttar describes it as a hard drive damaged on a computer, but that too, he says, will return.

Dr. Buttar offers a lot of diagnostic detail:

Dr. Buttar diagnosed Desiree with essentially a toxic reaction to the flu shot.

"My diagnosis of her is acute viral post immunization ensephalophosphy* and secondary mecury toxicity, which we just established as of this Friday.

When asked if her diagnosis was a result of the flu shot, Dr. Buttar responded, "Absolutely. Without a doubt? Without a doubt."

He says she was showing symptoms from a number of different conditions including dystonic side effects, which is why he says so many doctors couldn't figure out what was wrong with her. Desiree's private neurologist also diagnosed her with a dystonic reaction to the seasonal flu shot. Dr. Buttar treated her in what many traditional doctors might call an untraditional way.

"We took the toxins out of her system, we supported her system, we reduced inflammation and we started treating the injuries by giving her certain nutrients that the brain needed to help repair the neuroreceptors," says Buttar.

Those treatments included, among other things, time in a hyperbaric chamber and dozens of IV treatments containing synthetic amino acids and nutrients. Dr. Buttar believes with rest and continued treatment, Desiree will fully recover.

* He probably said "encephalopathy", but the writer of this article is a moron.

VAERS describes acute encephalopathy as

For adults and children 18 months of age or older, an acute encephalopathy is one that persists for at least 24 hours and is characterized by at least two of the following:

• A significant change in mental status that is not medication related: specifically a confusional state, or a delirium, or a psychosis;
• A significantly decreased level of consciousness, which is independent of a seizure and cannot be attributed to the effects of medication; and
• A seizure associated with loss of consciousness.

VAERS is not interested unless your condition is chronic, lasting six months (48 hours is RIGHT OUT):

For purposes of the Reportable Events Table, a vaccine recipient shall be considered to have suffered an encephalopathy only if such recipient manifests, within the applicable period, an injury meeting the description below of an acute encephalopathy, and then a chronic encephalopathy persists in such person for more than 6 months beyond the date of vaccination.

tl;dr: Desiree was turning purple but was much better after 24-48 hours of alternative medicine treatment and almost completely cured in two weeks. Typical acute encephalopathy patients recover in a matter of six months.

[Clodfobble]

Originally Posted by Undertoad

Typical acute encephalopathy patients recover in a matter of six months.

No, "typical" acute encephalopathy patients don't recover at all. The six month mark is just when they consider the condition to be a neurologically chronic one, as opposed to a short-term physical injury that heals on its own, like from a concussion. You also seem to be confusing your timelines: it was 48 hours after the start of treatment that she showed major improvement, but how many weeks/months had the symptoms been present before she started treatment? There's your measurement for whether her condition lasted long enough to be considered chronic.

It's also important to understand that encephalopathy is an incredibly broad term that really just means some kind of neurological dysfunction. Autism, epilepsy, and a host of other diseases all fall under the encephalopathy umbrella.

[skysidhe]

There are many types of encephalopathy. Some examples include:

• Mitochondrial encephalopathy - Metabolic disorder caused by dysfunction of mitochondrial DNA. Can affect many body systems, particularly the brain and nervous system.
• Glycine encephalopathy - A pediatric metabolic disorder
• Hepatic encephalopathy - Arising from advanced cirrhosis of the liver
• Hypoxic ischemic encephalopathy - Permanent or transitory encephalopathy arising from severely reduced oxygen delivery to the brain
• Static encephalopathy - Unchanging, or permanent, brain damage
• Uremic encephalopathy - Arising from high levels of toxins normally cleared by the kidneys -- rare where dialysis is readily available
• Wernicke's encephalopathy - Arising from thiamine deficiency, usually in the setting of alcoholism
• Hashimoto's encephalopathy - Arising from an auto-immune disorder
• Hypertensive encephalopathy - Arising from acutely increased blood pressure
• Lyme encephalopathy - Arising from the Borrelia Burgdorferi bacteria.
• Toxic encephalopathy - A form of encephalopathy caused by chemicals, often resulting in permanent brain damage
• Toxic-Metabolic encephalopathy - A catch-all for brain dysfunction caused by infection, organ failure, or intoxication
• Transmissible spongiform encephalopathy - A collection of diseases all caused by prions, and characterized by "spongy" brain tissue (riddled with holes), impaired locomotion or coordination, and a 40 out of 40 fatality rate. Includes bovine spongiform encephalopathy (mad cow disease), scrapie, and kuru among others.

Encephalopathy alters brain function and/or structure. It may be caused by an infectious agent (bacteria, virus, or prion), metabolic or mitochondrial dysfunction, brain tumor or increased intracranial pressure, exposure to toxins (including solvents, excess animal protein, drugs, alcohol, paints, industrial chemicals, and certain metals), radiation, trauma, poor nutrition, or lack of oxygen or blood flow to the brain.
The hallmark of encephalopathy is an altered mental state. Depending on the type and severity of encephalopathy, common neurological symptoms are loss of cognitive function, subtle personality changes, inability to concentrate, lethargy, and depressed consciousness. Other neurological signs may include myoclonus (involuntary twitching of a muscle or group of muscles), asterixis (abrupt loss of muscle tone, quickly restored), nystagmus (rapid, involuntary eye movement), tremor, seizures, jactitation (restless picking at things characteristic of severe infection), and respiratory abnormalities such as Cheyne-Stokes respiration (cyclic waxing and waning of tidal volume), apneustic respirations, and post-hypercapnic apnea.


I don't believe that autism falls under encephalopathy.

I can understand your angle of of toxic-metabolic encephalopathy in regards to autism which would be symptomatic but autism in itself is asymptomatic.

[Flint]

You just Googled that 15 minutes ago, didn't you?

[Clodfobble]

Originally Posted by skysidhe

I don't believe that autism falls under encephalopathy.

Sorry, but you're not a neurologist. My son's current official diagnosis is actually "encephalopathy with autistic symptom presentation." The underlying hypothesis of the treatments we are pursuing is that most cases of autism are actually combinations of mitochondrial encephalopathy, atypical Glycine encephalopathy, and toxic encephalopathy. In addition, many autistic kids have been found to have chronic Lyme infections and thiamine deficiencies, both of which can also lead to encephalopathy, but these seem to be relatively small contributors compared to the other conditions.

I have no idea what "autism in itself is asymptomatic" is supposed to mean.

[skysidhe]

Originally Posted by Flint

You just Googled that 15 minutes ago, didn't you?

lol yes flint I can too be an instant expert hehheh

asymptomatic =

People can be on the autism spectrum without having any symptoms. In other words there is nothing to cure.
It is not a disease.


No I am not a neurologist.I am not talking about your experience. I get that.
I am not sure how pointing that out is helpful or respectful since you don't even know who you are talking to. As far as you know I could be a parent just like you with a child deemed autistic/pdd/aspergers.
I might be a special ed IA working with autistic kids.
You just never know and your experiences are true for you as I said but you are about treating organically the toxins that create reactions in your kids. I say great!

[Clodfobble]

Originally Posted by skysidhe

People can be on the autism spectrum without having any symptoms.

No, by definition they can't. They cannot prove what causes autism spectrum disorders, and there is no test for it. It is by very definition the presentation of the symptoms. There are many on the spectrum who can certainly function in day-to-day life just fine, and who would not be considered in any way disabled, but they still have certain classifiable symptoms, or they are not on the spectrum.

It's not about one experience versus another. You wrote an incorrect statement regarding the neurological definition and scope of encephalopathy. It wouldn't matter if you were an ASD parent, a special ed IA, or an actual degreed neurologist, your statement would still be factually wrong.

[skysidhe]

I should have said not having any symptoms of a disease.

Just because some people have trained themselves to function day to day they still may be on the autism spectrum. One can train oneself not to present those traits but still be on the autism spectrum.

I am trying to say and not very well is that the encephalopathy is a symptom and the autism is not. One is symptomatic and one is not.

So I agree with UT. The symptoms of encephalopathy can be treated but autism in itself is not a treatable disease. Autism isn't a symptom so it is not a disease referring what you said here:

[/quote clodfobble]
It's also important to understand that encephalopathy is an incredibly broad term that really just means some kind of neurological dysfunction. Autism, epilepsy, and a host of other diseases all fall under the encephalopathy umbrella. [/quote]


ps. I'm tired so lets just agree to disagree. -peace

[Clodfobble]

I'm sure UT is thrilled to have you lend your credence to his side.

[xoxoxoBruce]

Originally Posted by skysidhe

I can understand your angle of of toxic-metabolic encephalopathy in regards to autism which would be symptomatic but autism in itself is asymptomatic.

Whoa, wait a damn minute here.
asymptomatic = adjective: having no symptoms of illness or disease.

If there are millions of kids with Autism, and Autism in asymptomatic, how the fuck do we know they have Autism? That makes no sense at all.

[Undertoad]

Thanks for the corrections C. Desiree developed symptoms in early September and was treated by Dr. Buttar in late October.

Totally unfair leading question: based on what you know, would you have Dr. Buttar treat your son?

[Clodfobble]

Based on what I know, I'd consider it, but I'd have to meet with him individually and discuss things with him to know for sure. He is following a general treatment path that I agree with; however, like any medical procedure, it's entirely possible to screw it up in very dangerous ways. The thing that is novel is not the treatments he's using, but rather what he's using them for. Chelation drugs have been around forever, and are the standard accepted treatment for known cases of heavy metal poisoning. Anti-inflammatories are accepted as routine for a host of diseases. Mitochondrial dysfunction has likewise been on the medical books for decades. The only "alternative" part about it is that he (and hundreds of other doctors around the country) is using these treatments on conditions that are not generally accepted to be rooted in heavy metal poisoning, or inflammation, or metabolic imbalance. But there are of course lab tests to definitively confirm these conditions, and responsible doctors in Dr. Buttar's field perform them and treat based on their results. (On the other hand, it's been my experience that mainstream doctors will refuse to even consider testing for these other, known conditions, because that would be a tacit admission that they could somehow be connected to the neurological symptoms, which is a great big political minefield that they all want to avoid.)

So I would need to find out what sort of tests he runs and what medical justification he uses for each treatment. For example, there are some DAN doctors who will immediately prescribe antifungals for any autistic child who comes to see them, because that is a commonly needed treatment. But if they are not running the stool and urine cultures to determine that there actually is an infection, what strain it is, and what is the most appropriate drug and dosage to use in that case--which is something I can (and would continue to do, in this hypothetical case) confirm with other mainstream doctors, even while they shake their heads at the lab reports and marvel at what a complete coincidence it is that my son happened to have all these underlying conditions like I said he did--then I would not let him treat my child.

Actual conversation with my pediatrician:

Me: So if I brought my daughter to you, and said that I caught her eating paint off an old building, what would you do?
Her: Well, we'd want to run some tests on the paint to see if it contained lead.
Me: What if we ran across it on our vacation, hundreds of miles away, and you couldn't test the paint?
Her: In that case we would need to go ahead and test her for lead poisoning.
Me: How would you do that?
Her: The only way to do it would be to give her a small amount of the drugs used to pull lead out of the body, and if elevated levels of lead came out in her urine, then we'd know she needed to continue to be on those drugs until it was gone.
Me: So if I showed you a lab report that showed she had a bunch of lead in her system, you would be totally fine with treating that?
Her: Yes, that would be proof the paint had lead in it.
Me: What if I lied, and she hadn't eaten any paint?
Her: Well the lab test would then show--
Me: No, the lab test still shows she has tons of lead in her system, but I'm telling you she didn't come in contact with any major known sources of lead in the last few weeks.
Her: Well the lead must have come from somewhere.
Me: Right. So would you order the tests for her right now?
Her: No, if she isn't showing symptoms of lead poisoning, and you didn't see her come in contact with any, then there's no point in ordering the test.
Me: What are the symptoms of lead poisoning?
Her: Well, they're hard to detect, but things like confusion, abdominal problems, cognitive problems...
Me: My daughter has all those things.
Her: But your daughter has autism, so that explains them.
Me: So if I got another doctor to order the lab tests, and brought them to you, would you be willing to treat her for lead poisoning then, if the tests showed she needed it?
Her: Well... no I would recommend you have that doctor treat her. I'm not going to be comfortable treating her for a condition I know she doesn't have.
Me: Even if the lab tests--the same lab tests you would order if I lied and said she had eaten lead paint--showed she did have the condition?
Her: Yes.

Assuming Dr. Buttar is responsible in his use of testing, the only difference between him and the rest of the medical community is he's actually bothering to investigate what might be wrong, rather than writing it off as something tragic and unknowable.

[Undertoad]

Based on what I know, I'd consider it

Followup A: Do you believe Desiree had acute encephalopathy?

Followup B: Do you believe that Dr. Buttar's treatments solved it?