Congress has lost its mind...

[TheMercenary]

Senate sends $1.1T pork-laden bill to Obama

Taxpayer watchdog groups say the bills are loaded with thousands of earmarks, the pork-barrel spending projects lawmakers include to direct money to pet projects.

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/...bill-to-obama/



“We’re gonna ban all earmarks” President Obama

http://bellalu0.wordpress.com/2009/1...spending-bill/

[TheMercenary]

Originally Posted by Redux

The 2005 record is not in jeopardy......13,997 projects for a total of $27.3 billion!

A closer look at 100 projects funded by the American Recovery and Reinvestment Act of 2009, nothing to do with 2005.

Where are all the millions of jobs promised by Obama, Reid, and Pelosi funded by the American Recovery and Reinvestment Act? It was a total failure in that respect. If it wasn't why are they talking about another stimulus bill aimed specifically at jobs? Why the meeting at the White House to specifically address jobs?

Feb 2009:

"But it does mark the beginning of the end - the beginning of what we need to do to create jobs for Americans scrambling in the wake of layoffs; to provide relief for families worried they won't be able to pay next month's bills; and to set our economy on a firmer foundation.", President Obama.

http://money.cnn.com/2009/02/17/news...cess/index.htm

"The goal at the heart of this plan is to create jobs. Not just any jobs, but jobs doing the work America needs done: repairing our infrastructure, modernizing our schools and hospitals, and promoting the clean, alternative energy sources that will help us finally declare independence from foreign oil," President Obama said Friday morning.

http://money.cnn.com/2009/02/13/news...ulus/index.htm


Reid Feb 2009:

“the main direction is tax cuts, people are really needful of money. About 58% of it is job creating.”

http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/op...-39287787.html

Pelosi Interview Feb 2009:

COURIC: Is there anything in the Senate version that you think shouldn't be in the package?
PELOSI: I would like to have seen more of an emphasis on job creation. I don't think there's any doubt that the House bill created more jobs. But this bill will create 3.5 million jobs and three weeks ago we weren't even on this path. I always say to my members, respect it for what it does, rather than judge it for what it does not do, because this does an enormous amount. And in order for it to instill the confidence into the American people, I think we have to believe in what we are doing and we believe in what we are doing.

http://www.mediaresearch.org/cyberal...yb20090212.asp

3.5 million jobs? really?

Where are they?

Both the CBO and GAO studies showed between 650,000 and 1,500,000 million jobs created or saved in the first nine months. Given that a large part of the recovery money has yet to be obligated (by intent), the projections for the anticipated life of the program (18 months to 2 years) exceed 2.5 million.

Its not a perfect program and there is abuse and faulty record keeping, but nearly all economists have agreed the program has helped the economy from falling off the cliff. They only differ on how great the impact has been.

Of course, we know you only accept CBO figures when it supports your agenda and disparage it when it doesnt.....and you have called the program a failure even before it has reached its halfway point.

Your economic plan was so much better....let everything fail and unemployment explode, the strong will survive, and the economy will correct itself.

For one who cares about the little people and the unemployed, that sounds, not only heartless, but irresponsible as well.

Or mayvbe WashingtonWatch, your reliable source on budget impacts, has the answers.

[TheMercenary]

Originally Posted by Redux

Both the CBO and GAO studies showed between 650,000 and 1,500,000 million jobs created or saved in the first nine months. Given that a large part of the recovery money has yet to be obligated (by intent), the projections for the anticipated life of the program (18 months to 2 years) exceed 2.5 million.

Its not a perfect program and there is abuse and faulty record keeping, but nearly all economists have agreed the program has helped the economy from falling off the cliff.

Which is why the numbers are pure fantasy and propaganda by the White House. They are filled with fraud, waste, and abuse. Including pet projects and pure pork for Demoncratic Senators who jumped on the money train. Kabuke Theather.

Of course, we know you only accept CBO figures when it supports your agenda and disparage it when it doesnt.....and you have called the program a failure even before it has reached its halfway point.

Concerning job creation it has been a complete failure. That is what I am addressing. Where are the jobs they promised us.

Your economic plan was so much better....let everything fail and unemployment explode, the strong will survive, and the economy will correct itself.

Which plan was that?

For one who cares about the little people and the unemployed, that sounds, not only heartless, but irresponsible as well.

Those are your words not mine.

Originally Posted by TheMercenary

Which is why the numbers are pure fantasy and propaganda by the White House. They are filled with fraud, waste, and abuse. Including pet projects and pure pork for Demoncratic Senators who jumped on the money train. Kabuke Theather.

Concerning job creation it has been a complete failure. That is what I am addressing. Where are the jobs they promised us.

Which plan was that?

Those are your words not mine.

Despite reports with problems with the data that would suggest no more than 10% error:

Fact check:

According to the Congressional Budget Office, the actual number may be more than twice what Recovery.gov says, and as much as 50 percent more than what Obama has been saying. The nonpartisan agency found that:

CBO, Nov. 30: [i]n the third quarter of calendar year 2009, an additional 600,000 to 1.6 million people were employed in the United States, and real (inflation-adjusted) gross domestic product was 1.2 percent to 3.2 percent higher, than would have been the case in the absence of ARRA.

That’s a pretty broad spread, but CBO says the range includes the views of most economists and reflects the inherent uncertainty of such estimates. The agency, unlike Recovery.gov, didn’t depend just on reports filed by recipients of stimulus funds to make its calculations, because the reports don’t provide a complete picture of the law’s impact on jobs. For one thing, the reports measure only jobs created or saved by employers who receive stimulus money directly or their immediate subcontractors, but not lower-level contractors. In addition, the fact that grant recipients and their workers have money in their pockets means they’ll spend some of it on products and services, creating more jobs. And the reports, CBO notes, only cover some of ARRA’s spending; the effects of tax cuts, transfers to individuals (such as unemployment payments) and other elements of the stimulus package aren’t measured on Recovery.gov....

http://www.factcheck.org/2009/12/sti...-re-revisited/

Or one only need to read about the numerous Republican governors and members of Congress who opposed the recovery act but waived the checks at events back home while claiming they (not the stimulus checks) created jobs.

Senate majority leader McConnell...took credit for the construction site at Blue Grass Army Depot in Madison County, Kentucky -- a project that was funded in large part by the Recovery Act.

House majority whip Cantor ...who has repeatedly claimed that the stimulus is "failing" to create jobs....appeared at a job fair in Midlothian, VA, to demonstrate how he is working on "long-term solutions that will put...Virginia workers back on the path to financial stability." But scores of jobs advertised at the jobs fair were created by the stimulus, and Chesterfield County, where the fair was being held, will receive more than $38 million in stimulus funding over the next two years.

Gov. Bobby Jindal said if he was still a member of Congress he would've voted against the stimulus, calling it the "stimulus that has not stimulated." Yet the very next day, he appeared with constituents in Louisiana to present a jumbo-sized check of federal grant money authorized under the Recovery Act to residents of Vernon Parish. He later toured the state in a "Louisiana Working" tour, handing out millions of dollars of stimulus money while simultaneously attacking "Washington Spending."

The list is endless.

The massive fantasy and widespread fraud exists only in your non-partisan () mind and on "reliable, objective, non-partisan" (double ) or more appropriately called "tin foil hatter" sites like WashigtonWatch.

[classicman]

Just asking here - you two go ahead and sling mud at each other all you want.... Who owns/runs factcheck?

Oh and this jobs created/saved is a bunch of crap - there is no way to eally account for jobs "saved".

[ZenGum]

How many Americans still have jobs? They've all been saved. Ummmmmm.

Originally Posted by classicman

Just asking here - you two go ahead and sling mud at each other all you want.... Who owns/runs factcheck?

Oh and this jobs created/saved is a bunch of crap - there is no way to eally account for jobs "saved".

Right.

Fact Check in a project of the Annenburg Foundation, but the facts are from the CBO report.

In fact, there is a fairly easy way to project jobs saved....particularly in the public sector. It results from budgets not being cut as a result of a temporary infusion of federal money to replace the temporary lost tax revenue.

So you think the recovery program has been a failure, like Merc?

Or will you straddle the fence, like you always do?

[TheMercenary]

Chinks in the armor exposed.

Fact. Obama, Pelosi, and Reid sold the "recovery" wad shot as a program that would create "millions" of jobs. Bull shit. More smoke and mirrors to get votes and support for pork spending.

The American public is being sold a pile of shit, lies, and falsehoods by the Demoncratically controlled Congress in an effort to obtain power.

Nothing new here.

[classicman]

Originally Posted by Redux

Fact Check in a project of the Annenburg Foundation, but the facts are from the CBO report.

IIRC they are a left leaning organization. However, getting the info from those who are trying to convince us that they made the right decision is still more than difficult. Large grain of salt. I remember very clearly when the promises of "jobs created" became "created or saved" It was a brilliant redesignation.

temporary infusion of federal money to replace the temporary lost tax revenue.

and when that money is gone? Then what?

So you think the recovery program has been a failure, like Merc?

I dunno - Merc can certainly speak for himself. For me, Its too early to tell. There is still a lot of money that hasn't been spent. It is still in the pipeline. There was a lot of waste and pork, but thats not uncommon.
So far though, I'm not really all that impressed. I have friends in different business sectors who got stimulus money and their input has confirmed my initial skepticism.

I heard today that "Stimulus II" is being drafted and some state Govt's are already looking into ways to spend the money. This should be fun.

Or will you straddle the fence, like you always do?

You mean will I blindly follow one or the other? no thanks. I did that long enough. I severed those ties. I refuse to bury my head up the ass of either party, like some people. You, however, don't have that luxury since you are part of the Democratic party.

Originally Posted by classicman

IIRC they are a left leaning organization. However, getting the info from those who are trying to convince us that they made the right decision is still more than difficult. Large grain of salt. I remember very clearly when the promises of "jobs created" became "created or saved" It was a brilliant redesignation.

The data is not from Fact Check, but from the non-partrisan CBO...nice try.

I agree that Obama over-promised but that doesnt take away from the success of the program to-date. Most economists agree that the recovery funds have made a difference.

and when that money is gone? Then what?

The intent has always been temporary...until the economy, including state and local tax bases, recover.

I dunno - Merc can certainly speak for himself. For me, Its too early to tell. There is still a lot of money that hasn't been spent. It is still in the pipeline. There was a lot of waste and pork, but thats not uncommon.
So far though, I'm not really all that impressed. I have friends in different business sectors who got stimulus money and their input has confirmed my initial skepticism.

Sure the pork is highlighted and is wasteful...but dont confuse pork with earmarks. Most earmarks serve a vialble and useful public purpose....sending federal tax dollars back to local communities.

You mean will I blindly follow one or the other? no thanks. I did that long enough. I severed those ties. I refuse to bury my head up the ass of either party, like some people. You, however, don't have that luxury since you are part of the Democratic party.

Your posts would suggest otherwise, but that is just my opinion and you certainly can disagree.

[classicman]

Originally Posted by Redux

The data is not from Fact Check, but from the non-partrisan CBO...nice try.

Interpretation of the data .. . sigh

I agree that Obama over-promised

<faints>

. . .but that doesnt take away from the success of the program to-date. Most economists agree that the recovery funds have made a difference.

just not anywhere near the job creation that we were sold. So they changed that to created or saved. cough/bullshit/cough
"Meet the new boss, same as the old boss."
This one just has a different sales pitch.

The intent has always been temporary...until the economy, including state and local tax bases, recover.

The tax bases that are dwindling, you mean? What about Stimulus II thats floating around?

Your posts would suggest otherwise, but that is just my opinion and you certainly can disagree.

Well you know what they say about opinions . . .

Originally Posted by classicman

Interpretation of the data .. . sigh


<faints>

just not anywhere near the job creation that we were sold. So they changed that to created or saved. cough/bullshit/cough
"Meet the new boss, same as the old boss."
This one just has a different sales pitch.


The tax bases that are dwindling, you mean? What about Stimulus II thats floating around?

Well you know what they say about opinions . . .

Shove it up your ass.

[classicman]

no, they say everyone has one - you were close though. Don't get discouraged.

[TheMercenary]

Originally Posted by Redux

Shove it up your ass.