Toyota stop sale

[lumberjim]

there's the rub. do the dealers....once they figure out HOW to fix them.....fix customer cars or inventory of unsold cars first?

you know which they'll WANT to do first....

[tw]

Originally Posted by lumberjim

there's the rub. do the dealers....once they figure out HOW to fix them.....fix customer cars or inventory of unsold cars first?

I suspect we are talking about weeks before any solution is implemented in serious numbers. And we still do not even know what this solution is. Did they really fix a problem? Or just move / reshape the pedal? A solution that will easily take many months just to get going on a large scale.

[lumberjim]

I've seen a couple different opinions of what causes this issue..... one says the floor mats get tangled up with the pedal, and another says the drive by wire throttle position sensors are faulty........


sounds like a boogie man scenario......

[tw]

Originally Posted by lumberjim

..... one says the floor mats get tangled up with the pedal, and another says the drive by wire throttle position sensors are faulty........

Or a spring on the pedal sometimes does not push the pedal back up. Or ... I have read everything I could find. Nobody (with responsible knowledge) is even suggesting what is the problem OR what the Toyota pedal solution solves.

We now get to learn how Toyota manufacturing works. Years ago, at the only source of brake cylinders - that plant burned down completely. Using concepts taught by Deming, Toyota literally had a sewing machine manufacturer completely trained in Toyota production techniques and manufacturing brake cylinders in three days. Toyota supplies do not win contracts only on price.

This pedal is made only in northern Indiana. Only the more informed news services will discuss how Toyota got production changes implemented AND expanded to meet demands. Obviously that is proprietary information - except where better new services are asking that sidebar question.

[TheMercenary]

Yea, I heard it on the news. Pissed me off since my dau drive a '10 Corolla and I drive a Tundra. But what cha going to do, they have us by the nads, and we can't control it.

[wolf]

Anybody else immediately start thinking about the recall math scene from Fight Club? That was Fight Club, right?

[jinx]

Yes

Narrator: "A new car built by my company
leaves somewhere traveling at 60 mph. The
rear differential locks up. The car crashes
and burns with everyone trapped inside. Now:
should we initiate a recall? Take the number
of vehicles in the field, A, multiply by the
probable rate of failure, B, multiply by the
average out-of-court settlement, C. A times
B times C equals X. If X is less than the cost
of a recall, we don't do one."
Business woman on plane: "Are there a lot of
these kinds of accidents?"
Narrator: "You wouldn't believe."
Business woman on plane: "Which car company do
you work for?"
Narrator: "A major one."

[TheMercenary]

Yea, they sent me the floor mat boogie man memo, I went out an looked at mey truck. No fucking way that my matt could get caught under the pedal. I think they were reaching at that point for a simple solution. The new one will obviously be much more expensive.

[jinx]

I wonder it's the same problem the audi 5000 had. That would be ironic.

[tw]

Originally Posted by jinx

I wonder it's the same problem the audi 5000 had. That would be ironic.

The audi 5000 was clearly drivers stomping on the gas pedal. Then claiming they were pressing the brake pedal. Even a Consumers Report investigation and video made that obvious.

This Toyota problem is different. In one crash, the brakes literally melted.

[jinx]

Originally Posted by tw

The audi 5000 was clearly drivers stomping on the gas pedal. Then claiming they were pressing the brake pedal. Even a Consumers Report investigation and video made that obvious.

Yes. I know.

In one crash, the brakes literally melted.

Didn't know that. Is there a link?

[glatt]

Originally Posted by jinx

Didn't know that. Is there a link?

I hadn't heard that either, but just found this.

"In the accident that has drawn perhaps the most publicity, a 2009 Lexus ES 350 raced through San Diego, weaving at 120 miles an hour through rush-hour freeway traffic. Veteran California Highway Patrol officer Mark Saylor was at the wheel, with his wife, teen-age daughter and brother-in-law aboard.

"We're in trouble. ... There's no brakes," Saylor's brother-in-law told a police dispatcher over a cellphone. As they approached an intersection, and the end of the road, the passengers could be heard urging each other to pray. All four died.

Afterward, investigators said that it appeared the brakes had been applied for so long that the brake pads melted, according to a report by the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration.

[tw]

Originally Posted by jinx

Didn't know that. Is there a link?

To the Audi and Toyota problems? Or a URL? I have so many sources that I cannot remember which ones reported on that one crash and the melted brakes.

And BTW, one would be completely devoid of basic driving techniques to not know how to put a car into neutral or switch it off (without the steering wheel locking up). For those who do not know how to do this, well, even after thirty years of driving, I still learn a new driving technique. Most who learn how to drive have only started to learn what should be common knowledge - such as how to put any moving car into neutral.

Same is why drivers go to snowy parking lots. Get up a little speed and spin the wheel. Every driver should have a feeling for how that car spins out - and how to control it. Even a parking brake is a steering tool when one finally learns basics.

Fact that so many have suffered death due to this ‘failure combined with little driving knowledge’ implies how much larger the problem actually may be.

[classicman]

Originally Posted by jinx

I wonder it's the same problem the Audi 5000 had. That would be ironic.

And the answer is...
..
..
..

The U.S. Department of Transportation has analyzed dozens of data recorders from Toyota Motor Corp. vehicles involved in accidents blamed on sudden acceleration and found that the throttles were wide open and the brakes weren't engaged at the time of the crash, people familiar with the findings said.
The early results suggest that some drivers who said their Toyotas and Lexuses surged out of control were mistakenly flooring the accelerator when they intended to jam on the brakes.
The initial findings are consistent with a 1989 government-sponsored study that blamed similar driver mistakes for a rash of sudden-acceleration reports involving Audi 5000 sedans.

Link

[glatt]

The early results suggest that some drivers who said their Toyotas and Lexuses surged out of control were mistakenly flooring the accelerator when they intended to jam on the brakes.

I was annoyed when I heard this news report on NPR the other day. They didn't give any numbers at all. They said of all the reported incidents, "some" were cause by driver error. That's not very helpful. Was it 99% or was it more like 5%? You leave the report thinking "Well, that's that. It was the drivers' fault." When really you can't make any such statement without the numbers. "Some" is not a number. This article basically says nothing at all.