The Obamanation

[TheMercenary]

Originally Posted by piercehawkeye45

If you look at the monthly data, in same link, the rise of unemployment under Obama was a pretty steady transition from Bush so logically its not valid to say that the unemployment is Obama's fault. You can't blame the parachute if you open it twenty feet from the ground.

Granted. What I have said is that it is not working. And to pretend like this administration has no responsibility is equally incorrect.

Originally Posted by TheMercenary

Granted. What I have said is that it is not working. And to pretend like this administration has no responsibility is equally incorrect.

I think it is worth a shot to provide $5,000 tax credit to small businesses for each new hire and using money repaid to the TARP fund to help community banks offer small-business loans through incentives to those banks.

But you have already declared this a failure.

We're not gonna agree...surprise.

[TheMercenary]

That is because any small business owner knows this is not going to make a difference in the long run. What is to prevent them from taking on a few people to get the tax break and then when it runs out just let them go as in the example I gave you?

[piercehawkeye45]

Originally Posted by TheMercenary

Granted. What I have said is that it is not working. And to pretend like this administration has no responsibility is equally incorrect.

First, I'm not making the assumption that our current admin has no responsibility. I was only responding to your skewed statistics. Obama's policies has not lived up to its hype, big surprise there, but unemployment rates have not drastically increased under his administration either. Whether they would be higher or lower under someone else I do not know.

But seriously, just make an Excel scatter graph from the past 12 months, the rise of unemployment rates under Obama isn't nearly as dramatic as the rise when Obama was just coming into office.

Originally Posted by TheMercenary

That is because any small business owner knows this is not going to make a difference in the long run. What is to prevent them from taking on a few people to get the tax break and then when it runs out just let them go as in the example I gave you?

I've read alot of positive feedback to the proposal from small businesses as well as skepticism from others. Generalizing doesnt really work.

And if some want to scam the system (any system) as you suggested, they will, while others will use it more constructively.

[Happy Monkey]

Originally Posted by TheMercenary

That is because any small business owner knows this is not going to make a difference in the long run. What is to prevent them from taking on a few people to get the tax break and then when it runs out just let them go as in the example I gave you?

Because it costs more than $5000 to employ someone. They won't gain money by doing that unless they actually have profitable work for that employee to do.

Some companies may not be able to continue that employment without the extra $5000, but some will. And even for the ones who can't, they will have employed someone for the duration of the stimulus, and the person will hopefully be in the job market in a better economy. This is a job stimulus bill, after all, designed to boost the job market while the economy recovers.

[TheMercenary]

Originally Posted by Happy Monkey

Because it costs more than $5000 to employ someone. They won't gain money by doing that unless they actually have profitable work for that employee to do.

Some companies may not be able to continue that employment without the extra $5000, but some will. And even for the ones who can't, they will have employed someone for the duration of the stimulus, and the person will hopefully be in the job market in a better economy. This is a job stimulus bill, after all, designed to boost the job market while the economy recovers.

IMHO if it is not sustainable for more than one year it is a total waste of taxpayer dollars and only preventing a more meaningful recovery.

[Happy Monkey]

How does putting people to work, even if it's only for a year for some of them, prevent a more meaningful recovery?

[TheMercenary]

Because in one year they will be right back where they were again and we will have spent all that money for a non-fix. Looking at the larger issue here.

[Happy Monkey]

They won't be back where they were. Some of the people won't be fired, and even the ones who are will have had a year's worth of employment; a year's worth of income; a year off of the unemployment rolls; and a year's worth of participation in the economy.

It is to be hoped that the $5000 will buy more than that for as many as possible, but it's a good deal even if that's all it buys.

And how is any other recovery prevented by this?

So where are Merc and Classic?

They are always the first to post economic and jobs reports as soon as they are released by the govt.

But they missed the report last week on the 5.7 percent annual growth rate in the fourth quarter (of 09), the fastest pace since 2003 and the report today on the unemployment rate for Jan dropping to 9.7%. Small incremental improvements...but who can argue that they are not moving in the right direction?

Perhaps they are at the National Tea Party Convention where all the fun is.

The opening speaker at the first National Tea Party Convention called President Obama a "committed Socialist ideologue" who was elected because "we do not have a civics, literacy test before people can vote."

The bitching about socialism and fascism... the Nazi signs and rhetoric...the calls for the end to multi-cutluralism and the return of a literacy test for voting...the threats to take back the govt (by force, if necessary) or secede.

And the best is yet to come... tomorrow's general session on "“Correlations between the current Administration and Marxist Dictators of Latin America”...followed by Palin's $100,000 speech at the closing banquet.

[Spexxvet]

Originally Posted by Redux

...followed by Palin's $100,000 speech at the closing banquet.

She needs the money.

Records show that Sarah Palin hasn't paid any property taxes on cabins that have been built on two backcountry plots partially owned by the former Alaska governor.

[Shawnee123]

How come all the tea-baggin' women are those fat pasty grub-worm looking things, with thin lips and prominent sagging jowls? Is it inbreeding?

[classicman]

Originally Posted by Redux

So where are Merc and Classic?

They are always the first to post economic and jobs reports as soon as they are released by the govt.

False. I don't thin that I've ever posted one, but lemme see what I can find real fast for you. . .

Real Unemployment Rate at 16.77%
We Need Jobs!

WASHINGTON - February 5 - Americans for Democratic Action’s National Director, Michael J. Wilson, made the following statement about today’s unemployment numbers from the Bureau of Labor Statistics:

“The real unemployment rate released today by the Bureau of Labor Statistics is 16.7% -- a full 7 points higher than the officially reported rate.

“We are beginning to see signs of an economic recovery. Even though we know that jobs are a lagging indicator, we know that is of little comfort to the millions who have remained jobless for week after week after week.

“In addition, as we enter African American History Month, the 24.3% African American unemployment rate means that nearly one in four African Americans is jobless. The Congress and the President need to work together to make sure that the Great Recession’s contribution to history is ending the disparate impact joblessness has on the African American community.

Former Joint Economic Committee Economist and ADA partner Paul Manchester, said the following:

“The unemployment rate fell from 10.0% in December to 9.7% in January. The number of unemployed also fell, from 15.27 million to 14.84 million, which is also good news.

However, the average length of unemployment increased, from 29.1 weeks to 30.2 weeks, a record.

The increase in the duration of unemployment more than offsets the drop in the number of unemployed, so the Manchester Index continued to rise, from 444.3 million weeks to 448.1 million weeks of joblessness. However, it should be noted that this is the smallest increase the last 12 months.”

Link

Happy now?

Originally Posted by classicman

False. I don't thin that I've ever posted one, but lemme see what I can find real fast for you. . .


Link

Happy now?

SO what was the real unemployment rate before Obama took office.

Or doesnt that matter if you start using that figure now.

And happy to see you and offer my perspective on your negativism.

"Always with the negative vibes MerClassic, always with the negative vibes."

I apologize if I am wrong about you posting the monthly econ/job news reports...maybe that is just Merc...but you and he both post so many "interesting" and negative links, its hard to keep track. And more often than not, you post those links w/o offering an opinion and rarely, if ever, offering a solution of your own.

And, to your credit, you dont make constant references to Socialism and Nazis.

Relax...Lighten up. (sound familiar)