Impeding changes to our Health Care system

[TheMercenary]

First it is biased because it came from a congressional economist and the CBO was instructed to refigure how the jobs were tallied. If it comes from the government you have to consider that they are trying to cover their asses for the amount of money that they spent, taxpayer dollars, have to be justified to the public. I see it as nothing more than propaganda. And don't forget they are about to try to spend another boat load of taxpayer dollars with no promise that things will work out in the end they way they have sold it.

[SamIam]

Well, maybe I'm Rebbeca of Sunnybrook Farm, but I have to accept data from the best non-partisan source out there, and the CBO fills the role better than some left or right wing blog. They do not appear to be overly optimistic to me. They say unemployment will continue at 10% for the first half of 2010 and then fall maybe a half percent by the end of the year. Where's the propaganda in that. They also say Obama's budget would result in a deficit of 1.3 trillion. Where's the mindless optimism there?

[TheMercenary]

Because the CBO only produces information based on data that it is fed, by the Obama administration.

[tw]

Originally Posted by TheMercenary

Because the CBO only produces information based on data that it is fed, by the Obama administration.

The Congressional Budget Office was created in 1974 BECAUSE Congress needed a source of honest data divorced from the Executive Branch. Due to the Nixon adminstration, both parties in Congress decided Congressed needed data that the Executive branch could not distort. The CBO's job is to provide data that can confirm or contradict what the Executive Branch claims.

I am still trying to understand how job data provided by the thousands of recipients of stimulus funds, as required by the recovery act - construction companies, police departments, turkey processing plants, etc - which serve as the basis for the CBO analysis, is Obama administration (government) data and/or government propaganda.

[Clodfobble]

Hey Redux, you should take a look at this thread. I wager you've never seen it, because you never, ever leave the Politics forum. There's a whole Cellar community outside of politics, and just like in real life, if you actually get to know folks on a variety of levels, you'll find yourself being given more credibility (or at least tolerant leeway) on the topics that you care passionately about.

[SamIam]

I don't see how Redux's mild comment warrents being linked to complaints about the nasty doings in the politics forum. The fact that Merc and C-man post elsewhere in the Cellar doesn't make many of their posts here any more pleasant.

Originally Posted by Clodfobble

Hey Redux, you should take a look at this thread. I wager you've never seen it, because you never, ever leave the Politics forum. There's a whole Cellar community outside of politics, and just like in real life, if you actually get to know folks on a variety of levels, you'll find yourself being given more credibility (or at least tolerant leeway) on the topics that you care passionately about.

Clod...people participate in forums for a variety of reasons. Mine is to discuss the important issues of the day; others have their owns reasons and I wont suggest where they direct their attention.

I have no problem acknowledging that I am part of the problem in the political discussions and if i continue to post here, I will try to do better and refrain from personal attacks.

I thought my post above yours was a simple straight-forward question in the form of a comment.

[classicman]

I'm sorry SamIam, Are you referring to my calling out other posters on their BS, hypocrisy or my having to defend myself from the onslaught over the last few months? Please stop. I'm really trying NOT to post here.

[Shawnee123]

Originally Posted by SamIAm

I don't see how Redux's mild comment warrents being linked to complaints about the nasty doings in the politics forum. The fact that Merc and C-man post elsewhere in the Cellar doesn't make many of their posts here any more pleasant.

Yeah, wtf?

Those who are interested in what redux knows about politics don't really give a flying rat's ass what food he's embarrassed to like or what's mildly irritating him today.

Does this backlash against the politics forums (which, apparently, don't fall under the "if you don't like it don't read it umbrella) now include a requirement to post in other threads too?

I don't really care. I'm pretty much out, and it's clear that it's better all around, but why do we need to give one of the few people who actually has something to say (something not borne of emotion, like what I do) but has basis in experience and knowlege, in politics a rash of shit for not playing elsewhere?

[Pico and ME]

@Shawnee and SamIam - Geez, I was wondering the same thing. It feels kinda like a pack mentality, doesn't it? What a shame.

FTR - I like Redux and the way he posts and I think he has done very well in dealing with the opposition here. He generally remains civil and sane.

[SamIam]

Originally Posted by classicman

I'm sorry SamIam, Are you referring to my calling out other posters on their BS, hypocrisy or my having to defend myself from the onslaught over the last few months? Please stop. I'm really trying NOT to post here.

Please stop what? Whatever the motive behind them, nasty posts are not pleasant to read. There's nothing wrong with me stating that. If you are trying not to post here, then I suggest you don't read here either because that will only make you want to reply.

[classicman]

You're right. Perhaps I should just fuck off. Seems like thats the general consensus anyway.

[ReDemlicat]

Fuck on!
and on and on!

Let's outlaw health insurance. I mean it. Set up a catastrophic illness/injury fund that is paid for by a flat rate tax that everyone pays. And then make group health insurance illegal. Apart from that, get the government out of the medicine business.

You wanna go to the doctor? find one you can afford. Too poor to pay? stay sick....or die.


either that, or make it health care for all ...but make all health care prices government regulated, and affordable. then pay differentials to skilled positions like doctors. individual doctors.

I can't decide

[Clodfobble]

Originally Posted by SamIAm

I don't see how Redux's mild comment warrents being linked to complaints about the nasty doings in the politics forum. The fact that Merc and C-man post elsewhere in the Cellar doesn't make many of their posts here any more pleasant.

Originally Posted by Shawnee123

Yeah, wtf?

Those who are interested in what redux knows about politics don't really give a flying rat's ass what food he's embarrassed to like or what's mildly irritating him today.

Does this backlash against the politics forums (which, apparently, don't fall under the "if you don't like it don't read it umbrella) now include a requirement to post in other threads too?

Originally Posted by Pico and ME

@Shawnee and SamIam - Geez, I was wondering the same thing. It feels kinda like a pack mentality, doesn't it? What a shame.

FTR - I like Redux and the way he posts and I think he has done very well in dealing with the opposition here. He generally remains civil and sane.

Ah, hell. Look, it had nothing to do with Redux's specific comment, it was just the first time I'd noticed him post since the anti-politics thread went down. Redux himself has complained repeatedly about the fact that no one else calls Merc and others on their aggressive posting. Part of the reason that happens is because we know these other people, because they are part of the community. There is even a poll devoted to what kind of asshole TheMercenary is, and yet he's a member of the community. I, for the record, do care about what foods Redux is embarrassed to like, or what's mildly irritating him today, or what hobbies he has, or any of a myriad of things that don't involve politics. I'm not sure why anyone who reads those threads wouldn't be at least initially interested in his or anyone else's response on the subject.

I wasn't trying to give him shit, I was trying to invite him to a happier place, with the promise that if others knew him better, they might occasionally participate in his politics discussions, so he wouldn't be faced with such frustrating, single-sided, monotone opposition, which he sure seems to hate. But if he really doesn't want to explore it, that's fine.

Originally Posted by Redux

Clod...people participate in forums for a variety of reasons. Mine is to discuss the important issues of the day; others have their owns reasons and I wont suggest where they direct their attention.

I have no problem acknowledging that I am part of the problem in the political discussions and if i continue to post here, I will try to do better and refrain from personal attacks.

Sometimes discussing the important issues of the day requires other people. But that's cool, if you're happy with the way things are, go for it.