Impeding changes to our Health Care system

Clod...I understand what you saying, I just dont agree with it. In fact, I think the reverse exists.

IMO, "family" members here seem to get a pass for ignorant/offensive statements or posts that are just factually incorrect.

Would knowing me better result in more people participating in the political discussions and condemning The Mercenary for characterizing a member of Congress as a Nazi or posting pics of Obama as Hitler? Why dont you find that igrnorant or offensive...or just childish...and speak out?

Or pointing out to Classicman that he is wrong when he declares that the stimulus program was supposed to be all about infrastructure, shovel ready projects? Or that it might be perceived as a bit narrow-minded to make sweeping generalizations like government data is biased and not to be trusted?

There are people here who dont like to discuss politics for many reasons. Thats fine with me. And IMO, there are also people here who give these guys a pass because you know them better and perhaps, as a result, are reluctant to challenge them.

added:
Hell, even outside of politics, there are "family" members here who have demeaned women members, on more than one occasion, with references to cunts....and get a pass.

Perhaps I dont want to be part of that "family" and simply want to discuss issues of the day with strangers, as opposed to friends and family, and debunk some wide-spread myths.

Unlike other prominent political contributors who claim to be non-partisan, yet flood the discussion with partisan links, I have never denied my partisanship, but I also try hard to make a clear distinction when posting my opinion as opposed to facts.

Perhaps others would value my opinion more if they knew me better....I understand that. But it wont change the facts and if the facts cant be accepted because I am not a member of the family, I would suggest it says more about those family members than me.

[Griff]

We don't call them on it because it is a pointless activity. They will not change and are tireless in their perpetual attacks. It is easy to be anti-everything, you don't have to actually consider any idea. I went the flame war route with them a long time ago and it did nothing but make me an ugly poster and this an ugly board. We no longer have interesting political discourse here. I'd stake out a position between your two camps but why bother, neither side will consider the weaknesses of their position and neither side gives a damn about this country. It is back to the human side of the board for me.

Originally Posted by Griff

We don't call them on it because it is a pointless activity. They will not change and are tireless in their perpetual attacks. It is easy to be anti-everything, you don't have to actually consider any idea. I went the flame war route with them a long time ago and it did nothing but make me an ugly poster and this an ugly board. We no longer have interesting political discourse here...

I agree and I have said that I have contributed to that ugliness and would try to do better. But if UT wants to shut it down or most members choose to continue to ignore it, thats cool. It wont be the end of the world and the Cellar will be a more peaceful and less confrontational place to dwell.

... and neither side gives a damn about this country. It is back to the human side of the board for me.

A bit over the top with this comment.

[SamIam]

Its not as if every other forum here is pure sweetness and light. Look at all the nastiness with Emma the troll on Home Base a while back. And a thread on Meta over just how much of an *sshole a certain member is. Yeah, the political discussions have been more political spams of late, and that is too bad. There have been times when I have wanted to post something here, but felt overwhelmed by the constant warfare. But I haven't deserted the forum either. There are only 2 or 3 members who are really responsible for the nastiness and maybe all this fall-out will convince them to be more moderate in their replies.

It kind of bothers me though when people who never post anything on the political forum suddenly want it to disappear. You can post here without name calling and you can also just not read any posts here. It is a shame if the bad manners of a couple of people cause the entire board to give up on political discussion.

[lumberjim]

Originally Posted by SamIam

It kind of bothers me though when people who never post anything on the political forum suddenly want it to disappear. You can post here without name calling and you can also just not read any posts here. It is a shame if the bad manners of a couple of people cause the entire board to give up on political discussion.

Do you think I really have any expectation of this forum being removed, or that I actually want it to be?

[tw]

Originally Posted by SamIam

Look at all the nastiness with Emma the troll on Home Base a while back.

Why? I thought my pictures were educational.

[Clodfobble]

Originally Posted by Redux

Would knowing me better result in more people participating in the political discussions and condemning The Mercenary for characterizing a member of Congress as a Nazi or posting pics of Obama as Hitler? Why dont you find that igrnorant or offensive...or just childish...and speak out?

The other side of that coin is that if Merc knew you, he wouldn't say nearly as much of that kind of thing. Merc suffers very strongly from the Anonymity Syndrome of the internet. If you're some stranger, his default position is to be a douchebag towards you. When he first arrived, he was a douchebag to a lot of people. As he got to know us, and we got to know him, he stopped being nearly so childish towards most people and most discussions. Still does on occasion, to be sure, but nowadays it's almost 100% directed towards you. He's fiercely loyal to those he cares about, and violently defensive against people he doesn't know. It's a character flaw, to be sure, but it's known. You are unknown, so not only does Merc taunt you like a pit bull, but we don't care enough to stop him.

[SamIam]

I'm not a mind reader, so I don't know what you REALLY want, LJ. Maybe a ham and Swiss on rye?

[SamIam]

Originally Posted by tw

Why? I thought my pictures were educational.

[TheMercenary]

Originally Posted by Redux

Would knowing me better result in more people participating in the political discussions and condemning The Mercenary for characterizing a member of Congress as a Nazi or posting pics of Obama as Hitler? Why dont you find that igrnorant or offensive...or just childish...and speak out?

Because that is how many of the American electorate, myself included (bet you didn't know that!) see them. Go figure.

Hell, even outside of politics, there are "family" members here who have demeaned women members, on more than one occasion, with references to cunts....and get a pass.

Only that bitch Pelosi..

Unlike other prominent political contributors who claim to be non-partisan, yet flood the discussion with partisan links,

You have yet to prove that the majority of my posts are "partisan", only that they disagree with your party and their propaganda.

I have never denied my partisanship

Which is a good reason why your opinion is no more correct than any other like you continually claim it is.

[TheMercenary]

Large increases in Health Insurance Premiums continue to roll in.

http://www.npr.org/templates/player/...62&m=124052145

[Griff]

Originally Posted by SamIam

And a thread on Meta over just how much of an *sshole a certain member is.

Consider who that thread is about, how long ago it started, and which forum he earned his reputation in. Emma was a right winger and a hater who was not as slippery or occasionally human as others who are still around.

As far as my going over the top, sure, but understand that I'm a swing voter with libertarian tendencies who lives in rural America and works in human services. I find the world to be a much more complicated place than the simple angry message marketers in the two major parties and tea baggers would have us buy. I wish the President only good fortune in rescuing his agenda and some scrap of national unity from all of the above.

We dwellars used to pride ourselves on having some nasty heated arguments here but they were not exactly dueling monologues like we see right now. Even during the run up to the war people were making cogent arguments despite or maybe because of the intensity of feeling. We also remembered to take the time to show a human face so people would react to people not ciphers. The politics forum is reflecting Washington right now and that is a shame. We used to be better than that. Most of this isn't on you, Redux, merc intentionally leaves little room for discussion wanting only to obstruct er... impede.

Of course it is possible that I've mellowed and don't really care about politics the way I once did. *shrug*

[classicman]

Originally Posted by Redux

Or pointing out to Classicman that he is wrong when he declares that the stimulus program was supposed to be
all about infrastructure, shovel ready projects?

This is factually incorrect. I have repeatedly asked you nicely, and not so nicely, NOT to put words in my mouth.
From my perspective THAT is what started this shit.

Or that it might be perceived as a bit narrow-minded to make sweeping generalizations like government data is biased and not to be trusted?

That is my opinion If you don't like it, fine.
Calling me narrow-minded is an insult. It is hypocritical of you to continually accuse me of doing exactly what you yourself repeatedly do as well.

[TheMercenary]

Originally Posted by Griff

....merc intentionally leaves little room for discussion wanting only to obstruct er... impede.

False. You are no less interested in discussion and never have been in your statements towards/about me.

I said I contributed to the ugliness and would try to do better. Expressing my opinion is not a personal attack or an insult...simply an observation with which you can agree or disagree.

And facts are a stubborn thing.

Its a shame you two cant admit the same.