Do Car Dealerships really pull this stuff?

[richlevy]

From here

The 'four square' gimmick.

At the heart of it all is the "4-square," a sheet of paper (sample above) divided into four boxes: your trade value, the purchase price, down payment, and monthly payment. This is supposed to help you and the dealership come to an agreement, but as you'll see, it's really more akin to three-card monte dealer's deck of cards. Many, but not all, dealerships use this tool.

So, at this point, we'll assume that you've gotten everything square and you're ready to close the deal. Sometimes, if the manager feels especially nasty (or has gone a few rounds with you via the worksheet), they'll come out of the tower and say "Folks, I'm (Douchey McDouchebag), the sales manager here. Congratulations! You've just bought a car! We were able to get the payments to $310 - I know you wanted $300, but that was the best we could do. That's close enough, right?" They'll nod their head (another psychological trick to get you to agree), and almost every time the person says "Yea, that's fine!" The problem is, they didn't realize that a $10 payment bump over a 5-year loan nets an extra $1k in profit for the dealership. It's called "the $10 (or $15, or $20) close", and I only saw it fail when a person was really, really exasperated with us. The deal ends, and you wake up in a year realizing that, somehow, you're $6,000 upside down on your car, while the dealership is laughing all the way to the bank.

[lumberjim]

you stupid asshole

[xoxoxoBruce]

That's so 1992.

[squirell nutkin]

I don't know about that. I faxed 20 dealerships the make, model, and trim level I was looking for and asked them for the best price they could offer. I took the lowest price. I didn't hit the lot until the deal was closed.

[richlevy]

Originally Posted by squirell nutkin

I don't know about that. I faxed 20 dealerships the make, model, and trim level I was looking for and asked them for the best price they could offer. I took the lowest price. I didn't hit the lot until the deal was closed.

I think a lot if not most people today understand that $10 per month adds up. I guess it depends how tired and/or (as LJ puts it) 'stupid' you are.

When we bought one of our cars from a smaller dealership in NE Phila, before we closed we went to a larger dealership to compare. The larger dealership let us walk out after 3 tries to match the deal. At that point the car industry was doing well and they new they could make a better price on another customer, which was fine by us.

[lumberjim]

Is the Pharmacist that sold your Health Insurance company pills with 1000% mark up laughing all the way to the bank too?

[classicman]

nope - He's bitching about how much the insurance costs on his Ferrari.

[richlevy]

Originally Posted by lumberjim

Is the Pharmacist that sold your Health Insurance company pills with 1000% mark up laughing all the way to the bank too?

Ooooh, touchy.

My son's a car salesman now too. While he's happy to make a sale, so far I haven't heard any 'I really screwed this customer stories from him'. I think he's managed to keep his soul intact.

I never accused you of doing any of this LJ, but you seem strangely upset.

[lumberjim]

If you really need me to explain why this thread and articles like the one you linked piss me off, I will.

I can go into great detail about how fucked up the public's perception of how car dealers should operate is, and how much damage assholes like the authors of these articles (who have typically spent all of 3 months in the business and failed at it) cause to what I do for a living.

What other business do you patronize that you can EXPECT a discount on their merchandise? And why do people resent every dollar of profit a dealer makes? Did you ask to see the invoice for the wedding ring you bought your wife? I guarantee they made a higher percentage of profit than the dealer you chiseled when you bought your Quest.

It's a good idea to do your research before you shop, but the vilification of all dealers because they have developed some skill in selling their wares really frosts my balls sometimes. Especially when some smarmy fuck 'exposes' the 'gimick'

People that read ( and believe)this shit hate buying cars, and exist in fear of being 'screwed.' They don't know when they've gotten an honestly fair deal, and are suspicious and unpleasant to do business with.


With all that said, I don't come to where you work and slap the dick out of YOUR mouth, so don't be so surprised that this irritates me.

[skysidhe]

I bought my car and the dealer did not sell me more than I could afford and they are not making that much money from their loan.
It's a great car, it's ''purty'' and it's almost paid off! ...like in a couple months. I actually feel very appreciative. The salesman said he worked hard on the loan for me. Well maybe he says that to everyone, I thought, but there were other people trying to buy cars in their muddy flip flops. I might be a snob but I think a little polish helped and good coworkers. Odd though. He knew my business was going to close down before I did. I denied it of course thinking it would never happen. He sold me the car anyway. If I ever need to trade it in I'm going back there.
They don't sell junk either.

[tw]

Originally Posted by lumberjim

It's a good idea to do your research before you shop, but the vilification of all dealers because they have developed some skill in selling their wares really frosts my balls sometimes. Especially when some smarmy fuck 'exposes' the 'gimick'

The minute the salesman needs me to talk to a sales manager, then I am ready to walk out the door. I don't immediately. First, I want to see what stupidity they will put before me. One sales manager was introduced as a retired special forces veteran from the Israeli army. I knew immediately these guys thought I was that dumb. After my third question, obvious he was not special forces. He was a sales manager doing the sales manager lies - which is the only reason they wanted me to talk to him.

Best car I ever got was also the easiest deal. An old salesman said, "Look, I know you have looked around and have the prices. This is our price. Here is our list of options. What do you want to do?"

Got the same price from him I would get anywhere else. The entire deal was done in 10 minutes. And we never wasted time with any sales manager.

Most dealers will waste a full hour with the customer. Well, I guess most customers and that dumb and manipulated. If they cannot make the deal in 10 minutes, suspect a scam complete with a sales manager to add more sales manipulation.

[Pico and ME]

When I bought my Sentra , I saved two thousand by pitting two dealerships against each other. I don't feel bad about that.

[lumberjim]

Originally Posted by tw

The minute the salesman needs me to talk to a sales manager, then I am ready to walk out the door. I don't immediately. First, I want to see what stupidity they will put before me. One sales manager was introduced as a retired special forces veteran from the Israeli army. I knew immediately these guys thought I was that dumb. After my third question, obvious he was not special forces. He was a sales manager doing the sales manager lies - which is the only reason they wanted me to talk to him.

Best car I ever got was also the easiest deal. An old salesman said, "Look, I know you have looked around and have the prices. This is our price. Here is our list of options. What do you want to do?"

Got the same price from him I would get anywhere else. The entire deal was done in 10 minutes. And we never wasted time with any sales manager.

Most dealers will waste a full hour with the customer. Well, I guess most customers and that dumb and manipulated. If they cannot make the deal in 10 minutes, suspect a scam complete with a sales manager to add more sales manipulation.

do you have to do a lot of stretching before you self fellate like that?

[squirell nutkin]

Originally Posted by lumberjim

If you really need me to explain why this thread and articles like the one you linked piss me off, I will.

I can go into great detail about how fucked up the public's perception of how car dealers should operate is, and how much damage assholes like the authors of these articles (who have typically spent all of 3 months in the business and failed at it) cause to what I do for a living.

What other business do you patronize that you can EXPECT a discount on their merchandise? And why do people resent every dollar of profit a dealer makes? Did you ask to see the invoice for the wedding ring you bought your wife? I guarantee they made a higher percentage of profit than the dealer you chiseled when you bought your Quest.

It's a good idea to do your research before you shop, but the vilification of all dealers because they have developed some skill in selling their wares really frosts my balls sometimes. Especially when some smarmy fuck 'exposes' the 'gimick'

People that read ( and believe)this shit hate buying cars, and exist in fear of being 'screwed.' They don't know when they've gotten an honestly fair deal, and are suspicious and unpleasant to do business with.


With all that said, I don't come to where you work and slap the dick out of YOUR mouth, so don't be so surprised that this irritates me.

I had a fairly good experience at the dealership where I bought my car. It was between that one and one other, who offered the same price but different color. When I asked the dealer to fax me a signed agreement on the price with the VIN number of the car he stalled and obfuscated and it became apparent that he was full of shit and didn't expect to honor his verbal deal. He wouldn't answer my calls, so fuck him. I wasn't trying to get over on him, I just said: Here's the car I want, What's your price?

Out of 20 dealers I faxed, about 15 responded with prices ranging from 22.9K to 15.8k That one guy was the only douchebag out of 15. The rest were just business people doing business. There wasn't anything personal about it. "Sorry, I got a better offer of 15.8K thanks for your time, I appreciate that you got back to me." Every one was polite, except that one guy.

But I bet he is the guy who gives everyone else a bad name.

[classicman]

yup - typically he is the only one you hear about.