What would Martin Niemoller think about Arizona?

[Spexxvet]

Originally Posted by Shawnee123

Quit muddying the waters with facts, will you? Hmmmph.

Originally Posted by Redux

Like the muddy Rio Grande River?

They're not wet backs, they're mud backs!

Originally Posted by Spexxvet

Uh-oh. That's gonna incur some costs. Better border security or more spending/debt/taxes? Better border security or more spending/debt/taxes? Better border security or more spending/debt/taxes? Is your head about to explode?

Mushy brains are a Mexican delicacy.

As you can probably imagine, brains tend to have a texture that likens to mush, but they really don’t taste bad at all. They’re actually almost flavorless, so most of the taste comes from the sauce in which the brains are prepared.
http://blog.ratestogo.com/disgusting...ies-of-mexico/

But "real" Americans prefer rocky mountain oysters.

[classicman]

Originally Posted by Redux

Sure...lets review.
You refuse to accept or acknowledge that funding for border enforcement this year is significantly higher than the last Bush/Republican Congress appropriations and not something that Obama did in reaction to the AZ law:

How much of that help went to AZ? Your statistics are for the entire US not AZ specifically.

So, now its the cost issue...which by most independent studies is grossly overstated.

It isn't nor has it ever been any ONE issue.

factor in the taxes paid by illegal immigrants
additional revenue that would be generated by providing a path to citizenship....

Excellent! And let us now relate that to the costs associated with these criminals.. .. .. I'll wait.

Originally Posted by Spexxvet

Shouldn't they enforce existing laws before they enact new regulation?

Yup - they asked and were refused for years.

You espouse spending additional money to stop illegal immigration, yet you condemn spending money. You can't have it both ways. Shel and Shaw understood...

lol Shel and shaw? Are you serious?
I condemn wasteful spending - always have and will. The rest is yet another figment of your overactive imagination.

Are we done being snide?

Apparently not - When you act like an a-hole, you can count on me to let you know - every time?

[Shawnee123]

Originally Posted by classicman

~snip~(bold mine)

lol Shel and shaw? Are you serious?
I condemn wasteful spending - always have and will. The rest is yet another figment of your overactive imagination.

Apparently not - When you act like an a-hole, you can count on me to let you know - every time?

Fuck you and your overblown sense of yourself.

Shel, did you get that? We're laughable. We must be stupid. Did you know that? I didn't.

Jesus, class, I knew you were an ass but I didn't think you thought you were better than everyone else.

Now excuse me while I go pick my nose and grunt and fling poo at my cow orkers. You interrupted that process by uttering my name.

[classicman]

I love how some draw conclusions based upon their names being mentioned. your boy spexxie brought you up - not me.
I merely referred to the fact that you and he agreed with his stance. That has been blatantly obvious.

Your intelligence or lack thereof (your choice) was never part of the discussion.
Nor did I ever say that I was "better than everyone else" as you said.

Sorry to interrupt your nosepicking/pooflinging - Have a blessed day.

[Shawnee123]

Have fun stormin' the castle!

[TheMercenary]

There is little direct evidence that illegal aliens pay billions in taxes. We do have direct evidence that they are choking our social systems on the border. Anyone who has lived near the border can clearly attest to this.

An increase in deportations is directly related to increase in border crossings, much of them being funneled due to building of the high tech border fence in Southern Calif.

Now lets look at the facts surrounding the stress on our social systems.

The 1.5 million school-aged illegal immigrants residing in the United States4 and their 2 million U.S.-born siblings can be divided among the states using government estimates of the illegal alien population.5 Using each state’s per-pupil expenditure reported by the U.S. Department of Education,6 cost estimates for educating illegal immigrants in each state are shown below.

http://www.fairus.org/site/News2?pag...s_iv_ctrl=1901

Bottom line is that the contributions in monetary gain by illegal immigrants in now way covers the costs to the individual states. We have had to many years of Administration after Administration ignoring the issue. Good on AZ for having the guts to do something about it.

[classicman]

The medical treatment of illegal immigrants accounts for about ten percent of the county’s health department budget. Arizona authorities requested compensation of $41 million from the federal government in 1999 for the incarceration of illegal aliens in state and local jails and prisons (under the federal State Criminal Alien Assistance Program, or SCAAP). However, only $16 million was received, leaving $25 million in uncompensated costs to be borne by Arizona taxpayers.

Link

The CIA reports that the Mexican unemployment rate was recently 4%, lower than 150 other countries and lower than the unemployment rate of the United States.
Mexico is ranked #13 in GDP, higher than 172 countries.
More than 18,000 companies with U.S. investment have operations there.
It has the greatest concentration of wealth per capita in the world.
Mexico is home to the richest man in the world, has nine billionaires and more millionaires than Germany.
In spite of these facts, America continues to send financial aid to Mexico and serve as an illegal immigration 'relief valve.' This is the perfect arrangement for Mexico's elite ruling class by absolving themselves of their responsibilities to their uneducated poor by exporting their angry masses.

Link
We can use some of that money instead.

Illegal immigration in Arizona:

* The federal government estimated that Arizona had one of the fastest growing illegal immigrant populations in the country, increasing from 330,000 in 2000 to 560,000 by 2008.

* Arizona has adopted other laws to deter the settlement of illegal immigrants in the state in recent years. The federal government estimates that the illegal immigrant population dropped by 18 percent in the state from 2008 to 2009, compared to a 7 percent drop for the nation as a whole. This may be evidence that the state enforcement efforts are having an impact.

* The Maricopa County Attorney’s Office has found that 22 percent of felonies in the county are committed by illegal immigrants. Illegal immigrants are estimated to be 10 percent of the county’s adult population.

* Analysis of data from State Criminal Alien Assistance Program showed that illegal immigrants were 11 percent of the state’s prison population. Illegal immigrants were estimated to be 8 percent of state’s adult population at the time of the analysis.

* Approximately 17 percent of those arrested by the Border Patrol in its Tucson Sector have criminal records in the United States.

* The issue of illegal immigration and crime is very difficult to measure, and while in Arizona there is evidence that illegal immigrants are committing a disproportionate share of crime, it is not clear this is the case nationally.

* In 2007, the Center for Immigration Studies estimated that 12 percent of workers in Arizona are illegal immigrants.

* In 2007, the Center estimated that illegal immigrants and their U.S.-born children (under 18) comprise one-fifth of those in the state living in poverty, one-third of those without health insurance, and one out of six students in the state’s schools.

* In 2007, the Center estimated that one-third of households headed by illegal immigrants in Arizona used at least one major welfare program, primarily food-assistance programs or Medicaid. Benefits were typically received on behalf of U.S.-born children.

* The new law (SB 1070) is extremely popular among Arizona voters. A Rasmussen poll found that 70 percent of voters approve of the new bill, and just 23 percent oppose it.

Link

[TheMercenary]

Classic, stop using all those ugly facts to make your point! You are making way to much sense.

There is very strong evidence that illegal immigrants contribute significantly to the Social Security "earnings suspense" fund....the funds from received from "bad" social security numbers.

The fund now totals more than $50 billion....the SS Administrator estimates that $5-8 billion/year is from illegal immigrants with false SS card.

You can quibble with the number...$5 billion or $8 billion...but $billions/year is a fact.

FBI/AZ crime stats are facts....increasing budget appropriations are facts....higher deportation numbers are facts.

Just not facts you guys want to hear.

Originally Posted by Shawnee123

Fuck you and your overblown sense of yourself.

Shel, did you get that? We're laughable. We must be stupid. Did you know that? I didn't.

Jesus, class, I knew you were an ass but I didn't think you thought you were better than everyone else.

Now excuse me while I go pick my nose and grunt and fling poo at my cow orkers. You interrupted that process by uttering my name.

Who or what is laughable?

Every time I read one of classic's response posts that deny or twist or ignore facts that challenge his opinion...I laugh.

Now this is laughable:

You have a perspective that is very different than mine. Thats one of the things I love about interacting here. The diversity.

Classic...your "interactions" consistently demonstrate utter contempt for any posts that challenge yours....and you love the diversity?

You and Merc can carry on now. You two deserve each other.

ps....keep sending Merc those links of yours....you will have a receptive audience who wont challenge you at all.

[classicman]

And you ignore and post onward when all the FACTS just posted don't agree with your opinions.

I am well aware that I am in the minority on this board. That doesn't make my points/facts nor opinions any more or less true/relevant or valid.

Originally Posted by classicman

You have a perspective that is very different than mine. Thats one of the things I love about interacting here. The diversity.

Originally Posted by redux

your "interactions" consistently demonstrate utter contempt for any posts that challenge yours....and you love the diversity?

Congrats - another masterful job of taking something and reposting it out of context.
I'm sure that your minions will be thrilled - you might even get a haggis or two.

Originally Posted by classicman

And you ignore and post onward when all the FACTS just posted don't agree with your opinions.

I am well aware that I am in the minority on this board. That doesn't make my points/facts nor opinions any more or less true/relevant or valid.



Congrats - another masterful job of taking something and reposting it out of context.
I'm sure that your minions will be thrilled - you might even get a haggis or two.

I understand that you cant see things as they really are...perhaps because you are not the brightest bulb in the cellar.

Turn on the light, dude!

[jinx]

Oh yay!!! It's The Fucking Asshole Show!!!

I haven't seen this in DAYS!

[classicman]

Nice - said like a true politician.

We're still waiting for you to add up the costs of the criminal immigrants.
C'mon Mr. statistic - where are your numbers?

How much of that help went to AZ? Your statistics are for the entire US not AZ specifically.

Excellent! And let us now relate that to the costs associated with these criminals.. .. .. I'll wait.

What are the costs to the AZ society in terms of infrastructure, education, health care and so on?
After you get that we can compare the two.