Dave just left

[Dagnabit]

Oh, I disagree. What about that initial apprehension? It's not meaningless. Some people will never post because of that initial apprehension. Some people will still have it every time they post.

And even if you personally don't have those kinds of feelings, it's pretty obvious that some other people do, and that it affects the community.

Plus, this is subtle, but notice how all this stuff happened after moderator UT actually did institute harsher moderation and actually disabled some accounts from posting. I may have missed something in all my reading but I think some of this stuff even happened in the same thread where this became apparent.

[Whit]

      I think that a whole lot of the fear of going against UT isn't about his ownership status. He might run the place but most lurk before they ever post and should know he doesn't kick people easily. More, I think going against UT can be a bit daunting because his arguements tend to be solid, researched and well thought out. This doesn't mean he's always right, but it does mean that if you disagree you better be prepared with solid reasoning. But there are several people on the board of similar standing as far as that goes.
      What's more, I think having THE Mod in regular discussions makes the site less formal. UT less overlordish, if you will. I can see your point Dag, but consider the cost of a mysterious Mod that only steps in when decisions have to be made. It dehumanizes him, and through him the board. As far as people being intimidated, I think the stronger and smarter ones won't back down, even if they fear being kicked. Speaking for myself, those are the people I most want here anyway.
      As far as the harsher moding goes, it was formally called for, (by Dave actually) and generally approved beforehand. Dummy accounts were getting out of hand, a response was called for. If you don't like the response, then forgive UT for being human and doing the best he can. Overall though, I'd say the response was called for, by those of us that use the board, not some heavy-handed slapping down of rules from above.

[DNK]

I've followed this ordeal and have gone back several times to re-read the matter at hand, and I still don't know why everyone's got their panties in a bunch. IMO, dave is being a pussy, sycamore didn't do anything out of his ordinary, but got way pissed at the fallout, and UT got dragged into it b/c it's his board. Other than that, this whole thing is rather petty and sophomoric. If dave wants to leave, freakin let him, I have a feeling he'll miss this place a whole lot more than it will him.

Keep on keepin on.


GBA

DNK

[lumberjim]

Oh, I disagree. What about that initial apprehension? It's not meaningless. Some people will never post because of that initial apprehension. Some people will still have it every time they post.

And even if you personally don't have those kinds of feelings, it's pretty obvious that some other people do, and that it affects the community.

Plus, this is subtle, but notice how all this stuff happened after moderator UT actually did institute harsher moderation and actually disabled some accounts from posting. I may have missed something in all my reading but I think some of this stuff even happened in the same thread where this became apparent.

wait a minute.

Toad knows when to get heavy. I like it that he participates in discussions, has opinions, regrets, concerns, feelings. Just like if he was a real person. I came on this site thru the image of the day, but the thread that KEPT me here (I'll assume for the sake of argument that the fact that I AM here is a positive) was toad's emotional distance thread. I instantly cared about him, and the other people obviously do too. I understand that he got a little wacky with the antisocial comments he made regarding his and dave's friendship unravelling, but I don't believe that that is the way he REALLY feels .....at least most of the time. He is an important contributor to the discussions and most of the time the fact that he IS the MOD doesn't come into the equation. If you are afraid that what you might have to say would irk tony, just read some of these other fuckers' posts, and settle down, beavis. he doesn't break balls or flex. wtf?

[darclauz]

Originally posted by juju
There is so much concern about name-calling and getting "personal". For some reason it's seen as off-limits and "morally reprehensible".

But there is also truth. When someone acts like a jerk, I feel like it's okay to say, "Hey, you're acting like a jerk. What's up with that?" For that person to then come back and say, "Oh, well, now you're getting personal!" is incomprehensible to me.

Also, to have good friends, you have to treat them with respect. That's the way it should be, anyway.

And part of that respect is being able to tell someone that they're buttheads....and allowing them the same freedom. ju, that's something that we've had........... but we work it out. (although, this time you've gone too far...)

ya know... i know you guys are all cyberpeople and none of you are real... but there's a half a dozen or so of you cyberpeople that i really like...syc, UT, dave. give a little room for crisis, and let everyone feel maligned..and then cut it out.

keep peace in the family, as my mother would say.


dar

[darclauz]

Originally posted by FileNotFound
It doesn't matter who's right or wrong.

This whole thing is a case of bullshit getting blown WAY out of proportion and the three idiots involved being too damn stupid to realize what a fuss they were making over nothing.

So here you have the case of 3 idiots blowing a stupid joke/insult way out of proportion. You can blame dave for leaving all you want...but fuck if he hadn't I bet you'd rant about who was right or wrong till the end of time.

Retards.

ya know............. this is the perfect response.

now -- let's have some chocolate and play nice again.

or...you guys play nice again, and i'll have the chocolate.

or..... play anyway you want, and i'll be over here with a box of godiva.

[darclauz]

Originally posted by xoxoxoBruce
You never, never, ever, have or will see me in tights. Ever. :p

rats.

[Whit]

      DNK, I've been finding myself saying in IM's and PM's to various people that I believe the stress predates the eye/unemployment thing. Thing is, since the relationship between these three was only partially on the board we won't catch it all. Missing details if you will. I also still say that what is on the board shows problems before this.

      Dar, it may be a bit late for that. Um... the playing part. The chocolates and tights part is still open....

[juju]

Originally posted by Whit
I realize I only post now and again based purely on my amount of free time, not quite a regular as much as an irregular, so to speak.

With over 800 posts to your name, I think it's fair to say that you're a regular.

[DNK]

Originally posted by Whit
      DNK, I've been finding myself saying in IM's and PM's to various people that I believe the stress predates the eye/unemployment thing. Thing is, since the relationship between these three was only partially on the board we won't catch it all. Missing details if you will. I also still say that what is on the board shows problems before this.

I'm sure you are right, with the pre-exisitng conditions of the said three, but I'm a little confused as to why so many people give such a large fuck about it. I suppose my ignorance can be written off as a somewhat newbie, only being around for about 6 months, but it still amazes me the amout of effort being shown. Again, petty and sophomoric.

But thanks for addressing my semi-rant.


GBA

DNK

[Whit]

      DNK, no problem. I don't know if you realize this, but most of the regular posters are from the philly. Important 'cause most of them have gathered a few times. They aren't just faceless names to each other. They're real people that have spoken and hung out. So it can be more personnal than if they just knew each other by screen name.
      Also, you hang here a while and the "community" you so often hear about around here becomes more real. You get to know peoples styles and have a sense of their personality. These are three of the biggest posters around. Plus they were friends on the side.
      The Cellar will be just fine. But it definately changed for those of us in for the long haul. That's what the big deal is.

[xoxoxoBruce]

Dar, for you mesh pantyhose but not tights.

Whit, You've been spot on in the last few posts. UT is an awesome adversary on the boards. I posted one time my admiration of his resourses and ability and my trepidation at going up against him in an argument. But when the time came that I disagreed (WalMart) I really didn't fear repercussions because I'd seen him always fight fair. I think sometimes he bends over backwards to be fair and that's got to lead to some frustration for him.
So we've witnessed a great pissing contest and everyone got wet. Since there are no winners in any pissing contest I guess we all lost. I'll miss Dave, I thought he was an asset, but the Cellar will continue to evolve. So lets get back to arguing about stuff and not people (except pols).

[juju]

Originally posted by juju
Besides, I'll know it's you. The posts will be from 1-3 sentences, with extremely compact, witty insight.

Originally posted by Dagnabit
Oh, I disagree. What about that initial apprehension? It's not meaningless. Some people will never post because of that initial apprehension. Some people will still have it every time they post.

And even if you personally don't have those kinds of feelings, it's pretty obvious that some other people do, and that it affects the community.

Plus, this is subtle, but notice how all this stuff happened after moderator UT actually did institute harsher moderation and actually disabled some accounts from posting. I may have missed something in all my reading but I think some of this stuff even happened in the same thread where this became apparent.

Sorry, UT, but you will have to try harder than that to fool me.

[DNK]

Originally posted by Whit
      DNK, no problem. I don't know if you realize this, but most of the regular posters are from the philly.

No, I didn't realize this. And yes, I see how this complicates the situation.

Originally posted by Whit
      Also, you hang here a while and the "community" you so often hear about around here becomes more real. You get to know peoples styles and have a sense of their personality. These are three of the biggest posters around. Plus they were friends on the side.

I'm recognize the 'community', but I didn't realize it was taken so seriously. I mean, I have real life issues that FAR outweigh anything done here, as I'm sure most do, but since they were "friends" on the side, this crossed over.

Originally posted by Whit
&      The Cellar will be just fine. But it definately changed for those of us in for the long haul. That's what the big deal is.

Well, whatever. I'm not losing sleep, just time at work. Hee heee.


GBA

DNK

[hot_pastrami]

Originally posted by DNK
I'm recognize the 'community', but I didn't realize it was taken so seriously. I mean, I have real life issues that FAR outweigh anything done here, as I'm sure most do, but since they were "friends" on the side, this crossed over.

Well, naturally we all have real-life problems that outweigh the happenings here. But that doesn't preclude us from being concerned and affected by what happens here.

I guess it's kinda like reading a series of books you enjoy, only to find that the author takes the plot and characters someplace you don't want it to go, and you stop enjoying the story as much. Big deal? No, it's a freakin' book. But that doesn't mean the author's Lucasizing* of the story it won't bother you a little.

I enjoy this community, and so anything that deteriorates from it is troubling, though not in any life-altering way.




* - Lu-ca-size: v To destroy a good thing by diluting it's quality, particularly in an attempt to increase marketing opportunities or for the sake of "political correctness."