Mosque at 51 Park Place, NY, NY

[Griff]

The debate is giving some nutters something to fixate on.

This sounds like a psychotic episode.

As the cab inched up Third Avenue and reached 39th Street, Mr. Sharif said in a phone interview, Mr. Enright suddenly began cursing at him and shouting “This is the checkpoint” and “I have to bring you down.” He said he told him he had to bring the king of Saudi Arabia to the checkpoint.

Late in the article it mentions this, curiouser and curiouser...

Mr. Enright is also a volunteer with Intersections International, an initiative of the Collegiate Churches of New York that promotes justice and faith across religions and cultures. The organization, which covered part of Mr. Enright’s travel expenses to Afghanistan, has been a staunch supporter of the Islamic center near ground zero. Mr. Enright volunteered with the group’s veteran-civilian dialogue project.

Originally Posted by classicman

Funny how the shoe isn't quite as comfortable on the other foot.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

A classic deflection to divert attention from one's own intolerance....a common practice of the right.

Much like another recent comment here about the "liberal tit suckers" war on christianity.

Small minds here do think alike.

[Shawnee123]

[piercehawkeye45]

Originally Posted by Lamplighter

Ye gads, it's spreading...

I just heard on TV that the owners of the Empire State Building are complaining about a proposed new skyscraper because it will be so close and only 34 ft lower than the ESB and will block their view.

Of course, they have the right to build there but they should be sensitive to our....

Reminds me.

In the following photo, there are two large condos right next to each other in the middle of the photo. Two separate owners. The condo on the right, built first, has four rooms on each floor, each getting a separate direction to look out of. The condo on the left, built after, has one room to each floor. Notice how the side facing the first condo has no windows.



Of course, they have the right to build there but they should be sensitive to our....

[Lamplighter]

Almost like a "spite-fence"

[classicman]

How the heck are you supposed to peek at the neighbors in the next building without windows? Makes no sense

[Urbane Guerrilla]

Originally Posted by Redux

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

A classic deflection to divert attention from one's own intolerance....a common practice of the right.

Much like another recent comment here about the "liberal tit suckers" war on christianity.

Small minds here do think alike.

I can't make my mind small enough to think or believe alike with Redux. He's so proud of his superstitions and his ignorance of the Right. That pride in his ignorance, popular among that heavily Democratic group the KKK, denotes an inferior sort of mind. This is the kind of conscienceless guy who votes for Democrats.

Don't claim enlightenment around me, Redux. You for one cannot know it. Do you think you have it? -- well, you're not right, you're left.

I think this perspective sums it up very well...whether its Beck and the Tea Party crowd screaming "socialism" and "Obama is a racist" and "destroying the American way of life" or the anti-Muslim bigotry that is raging across the country:

Ever watch a child have a tantrum? I don't mean the kind when a child is so distressed they need adult help to calm down. I mean the appearance of a "little Nero" who wants control at any cost. You know, the yelling and screaming, the endless demands and attempts at manipulation.

Hmm, this all sounds so familiar....right, I am talking about Glenn Beck ...and leaders in the TEA party...but I'm also talking about you and me.

Tantrum morality (a type of Bunker Security) is about raging against anything that you consider a threat to your power and prvilege. So the TEA partiers, sponsored by the wealthy and promoted by Fox News, who earn more than average Americans, are concerned for their own well being, not necessarily that of anyone else. For example, they are more likely to think that the Obama administration favors the poor and blacks over others. You can see they want to continue tilting the social table towards the wealthy (see David Cay Johnston's books).

When you are raised and immersed in a culture that promotes insecurity (as our culture does), you are likely to be attracted to the rhetoric of blaming (discounted) others for any problem you have. Hence, Glenn Beck's success. The Bunker Security world view is that you have to be aggressive to keep a sense of control. Witness the tragic bullying of Phoebe Prince (which became vicious morality).

Glen Beck's Tantrum Morality is highly destructive because he appears on a news network and the naïve viewer thinks he is only telling them what is true (after all, it is on TV and on a news channel). Find someone convenient to blame for your troubles and have at it. People who look or act differently are especially attractive (e.g., Obama, immigrants).

So when you are mad for not getting your way, you point to the "difference" in your opponent (race, sex, origin) or their area of vulnerability. You pull out the zinger that you know will strike at the heart. "I always knew you were weak." "My mother warned me about you people." You throw emotional Molotov cocktails to try to get your way.

Tantrum Morality is centered on one's own emotions and perspective.Fueled by panic and rage, a person can't consider alternative perspectives. These emotions overcome neocortical thinking and positive emotions.

Tantrum Morality is reckless. It has little sense of the future or consequences.

Tantrum Morality is harmful to cooperation and community because it cuts off dialogue. It is difficult to have a dialogue when one side keeps yelling and shouting insults.

Tantrum Morality is not grounded in reality but reactive to fantasy (Obama as foreigner, Obama as Nazi, Obama as socialist).

Tantrum Morality is truthy. You go with your feelings or intuitions, regardless of whether they are true or where they came from (and if they come from Glenn Beck, beware!)

It's harmful to the self (the tantrumer) because it gives the illusion of doing "something constructive" when it is only destructive.

Ultimately, Tantrum Morality is blind and dumb. It does not see how the individual's actions are connected to everyone else. It cannot move beyond its own narrow perspective which is partially fantasy. It cannot access capacities for thoughtful, rational thinking because the activated reptilian brain is in charge.

Any way you slice it, Tantrum Morality is harmful.

...If the tantrumer gets his or her way, it does long-term damage because the lesson learned is that screaming pays off. You have to nip bullying in the bud, just like you have to nip domestic abuse in the bud. Once a bully/abuser/tantrumer gets his or her way, it is much more difficult to prevent the same thing in the future. They have tasted power and want to keep it.

http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/...and-glenn-beck

You, sir, (and a few select others here - one who rages against the ""liberal tit suckers" war on christianity) repeatedly demonstrate the tantrum morality.

My suggestion....heed the advice offered:

How to get out of your own Moral Tantrum:

Pause. Breathe. Step back and look at yourself (often this is triggered when someone questions what you are doing). Pay attention to where you are and what is around you (right brain). Be self-reflective: Why am I trying to coerce? What am I afraid of? Is there a better way to persuade? How can I stay in a respectful relationship with this person?

Have a great day.

[skysidhe]

Under the constitution the state/goverment cannot tell anyone if they can build a church, mosque or synagogue,or even a lions club for that matter.

It would set a dangerous precedent. Case closed.

That said, there is something creepy about a mosque being build so close to ground zero, but if I were better educated I would understand I am just being an ignorant bigot.

[Lamplighter]

Deja Vue

[Undertoad]

Behavior in this thread has been poor. It is advised that we try to stay on the topic of the thread without addressing each other.

The constant reference to it as the "ground zero" mosque and the gross misrepresentations of the words and actions of the imam director of the community center in question by the right wing media and the opposition to the facility only spread ignorance and intolerance.

The result is the backlash against Muslim and other mosques across the country. Islamaophobia is not only counter to American values but dangerous at many levels.

Perhaps a visual will help:

Pause. Breathe. Step back and look at yourself (often this is triggered when someone questions what you are doing). Pay attention to where you are and what is around you (right brain). Be self-reflective: Why am I trying to coerce? What am I afraid of? Is there a better way to persuade? How can I stay in a respectful relationship with this person?

[skysidhe]

Originally Posted by Undertoad

Behavior in this thread has been poor. It is advised that we try to stay on the topic of the thread without addressing each other.

I realize you were posting in general, but since you posted to censor after pages of posts, I need to clarify.

I was talking about myself and it was no veiled judgment against another.

I really do find myself having irrational objections about a mosque being built so close to ground zero.I think it is insensitive. That said,I tell myself it is probably because I am an uneducated bigot.

I wonder if I educated myself about what Islam really is I would feel better about it.

One does not need to education oneself about Islam to understand that many of the more vocal and vitriolic arguments against the building of this community center are based on demagoguing, fear-mongering and gross misrepresentation of the facts.

The "sensitivity" of building at this location (not within sight of Ground Zero) is another question but where do you draw the line?

If the mission of the community center is to encourage constructive engagement between Muslims, Christians and Jews and if the moderate imam in charge has a history of such bridge-building, does that not display sensitivity and a positive voice in the community?

When a vocal opposition (even if is the majority) ignores the facts and instead, act on emotion, we ultimately create separate standards of what is acceptable based on our own biases (against a race or religion) rather than what is right...and that is dangerous....because you (me or anyone of us) could be next group exercising our rights in a manner that might offend the sensibilities of others .

[xoxoxoBruce]

Originally Posted by skysidhe

...but since you posted to censor after pages of posts, I need to clarify.

Not censor posts of fact or opinion, censure personal attacks.