Winning

[Cloud]

Originally Posted by freshnesschronic

I still think winning is very important part of life and needs to be taught to our youth. Winning drives college and professional sports, drives being an industry leader in the corporate world, is a huge reason why America is capitalistic. Winning to win is also an aesthetic pleasure, that I and many other people possess as well.

It's good to have ambition and set high goals for yourself, especially when you are starting out in life. If you want to be a professional athlete, or a high-powered CEO, of course there's going to be more competition in your life. But most people's lives and goals do not fall within these narrow areas.

I also question your use of "aesthetic pleasure" and extrapolation of the value of competition in all areas of life. I don't mean you should settle for being mediocre; I think the rush you may get from being on top is dangerous, and might lead you into ethically questionable behavior, and destruction of relationships. You wouldn't want to compete with your friends, or significant other, or co-workers, for instance--you want to "play fair and share" with these people.

[Shawnee123]

You wouldn't want to compete with your friends, or significant other, or co-workers, for instance--you want to "play fair and share" with these people.

Sounds like you equate winning, or competition, with cheating. Not true. I even said last night, during an intense round of Yahtzee that if you cheat to win it's not really a win. You can be competitive and set on winning, but you don't have to throw your personal ethics in the trash to do it. This is what people who lose a lot use to feel better: that winners must always be cheating.

[Cloud]

I don't equate it, no. But I think there's a correlation when your core philosophy is "winning is everything."

[Shawnee123]

Originally Posted by Cloud

I don't equate it, no. But I think there's a correlation when your core philosophy is "winning is everything."

Most certainly. But there are very competitive people who wouldn't throw the competition under the bus. Winning is everything means just that: at the expense of everything else.

My family is quite competitive. None of us would kill the other to win a round of Trivial Pursuit, but we're going to try really really hard to beat the crap out of them. We don't play fair or share, we're cutthroat yet honest. And it's really really fun.

[Cloud]

but I don't think Fresh is talking about Trivial Pursuit or Yahtzee. He's talking about teaching your children to do whatever you can to come out on top, and I think there's some danger there.

[Shawnee123]

Are there really soccer games in America where there is no score and kids run around for 30 minutes kicking the ball? Because that reflects to absolutely nothing in real life.

Well, fresh himself introduced the game avenue, so I'm extrapolating. And I really don't think it's any differerent. You're either a bloodthirsty asshole or you're not, and being competitive does not preclude or demand proverbial death.

Besides, soccer doesn't count. It's whole raison d'etre in the US is to give the kids who can't play any other sports something to do: no scoring, no keeping track. It's sweet and all, and leaves to the competitors the real sports.

[Pico and ME]

In his first post he mentions 'striving to win' in order to be successful. I think that's a very healthy trait to teach children. Its the effort that's important, and without the 'win' goal post I don't see how the effort would be expended or improved upon.

[Shawnee123]

Originally Posted by Shawnee123

Well, fresh himself introduced the game avenue, so I'm extrapolating. And I really don't think it's any differerent. You're either a bloodthirsty asshole or you're not, and being competitive does not preclude or demand proverbial death.

Besides, soccer doesn't count. It's whole raison d'etre in the US is to give the kids who can't play any other sports something to do: no scoring, no keeping track. It's sweet and all, and leaves the competitor types the real sports.

We are NOT all equal in all things. The sooner competitors and the contented learn this, the better they can function in their respective realm.

[Perry Winkle]

There's also the common companion to winning. That is, perfection.

Perfection is the enemy of getting things done. Getting things done is how most of us provide value to the world, thus earning our living.

I can't help but be reminded of a thread on the economy and wondering if this topic is somehow connected in FC's mind.It seems to me that someone who is underemployed is losing, if they would prefer to be fully-employed. Someone in that position might want to start providing more value to others to rectify the situation.

Sometimes winning is not being #1 but recognizing reality and making the best of it.

(I'm so damn full of platitudes lately, it makes me sick.)

[Perry Winkle]

Originally Posted by Pico and ME

In his first post he mentions 'striving to win' in order to be successful. I think that's a very healthy trait to teach children. Its the effort that's important, and without the 'win' goal post I don't see how the effort would be expended or improved upon.

I plan to teach my, as yet imaginary, children to strive to constantly improve and push themselves to the edge of their "limits." In that way you often win and achieve success in many forms. It also keeps the focus where it should be: On the things you can change.

You can always improve, but you can't always win. There is always someone who can beat you. If your happiness hinges on winning, you will often be upset. If it hinges on improving and doing your best, you will always be happy unless you betray yourself.

[monster]

Originally Posted by Perry Winkle

Perfection is the enemy of getting things done.

= my life story

[roygrimes50]

“Losers live in the past. Winners learn from the past and enjoy working in the present toward the future.”

[Gravdigr]

The world keeps score. Life keeps score.

[GunMaster357]

In my opinion, winning is first and foremost achieving one's goals. And these goals can be everything. And while winning and success are laudable, they become bad things if you add "at all costs".

As a younger man (25), I entered a sports competion with the only objective of getting to the finish line. It was a triathlon, also called an IronMan. I trained for more than a half-year. I did get pass the line, was proud to have done it even being beyond the 300th place.

Success depends on the objectives you fix for yourself.

[Griff]

Spot on Gunmaster.
My older daughter is very competitive but always with a sense of fair-play. As an artist as well as a fencer, she sees the beauty in the action and appreciates the intellectual exercise. A while back she got beaten in a pretty intense bout and I made sure she congratulated the girl again after she cooled off. There are formalities in fencing that are observed to assist in keeping the passion confined to the strip. I had a bout go to la belle a couple months ago and I saluted my opponent as is expected. He failed to return the salute. After the bout another fencer approached me saying he was glad to see me win after my opponent failed to observe a nicety that helps people focus on respect for their opponents.

My younger daughter is less competitive but occasional successes on the field hockey pitch have helped her self confidence immensely. She is doing very well in school and is actually practicing her drums because she's learned that results follow effort.

I've seen some really bad stuff as well, but if you focus on having fun, getting exercise, and developing character, I think competition is healthy.