Congress has lost its mind...

[DanaC]

Ahuh :p

I can't think of a more graphic example of political paralysis than this. It's unreal.

[BigV]

Well, something's moved.

WASHINGTON — After days of theatrics, the House of Representatives on Friday evening finally approved a conservative Republican plan linking an increase in the nation’s debt ceiling to the highly unlikely passage of a balanced budget amendment to the Constitution.

The political calculus of having this bill passed in the House and putting the Senate in the position of having to reject it remains to be seen. In a poker perspective, it is such a huge bluff that it can't possibly be believed. This is a ridiculous bill, and I'll tell you why before you criticize me as a Democratic partisan. The debt ceiling has to be raised. This is undisputed by every sane person. To link this necessary action to a second action is complicated enough but to link it to an action that has been accomplished only 27 times in our nation's history. A constitutional amendment is extremely rare and difficult to make happen, surely those who voted for this bill know this. Then how could we get this done?

How can we get the debt ceiling raised? How will we pay the people we owe? Because the constitutional amendment absolutely isn't going to happen in the next couple days. Here's why: (cue civics lesson)

Before an amendment can take effect, it must be proposed to the states by a two-thirds vote of both houses of Congress or by a convention called by two-thirds of the states, and ratified by three-fourths of the states or by three-fourths of conventions thereof, the method of ratification being determined by Congress at the time of proposal. To date, no convention for proposing amendments has been called by the states, and only once has the convention method of ratification been employed.

Hm, given the appalling lack of cooperation in the political sphere these days, what do you think of the prospect of having both houses pass agree by a 2/3 majority, and then have 3/4 of the states, 38 separate states also say yes, this is to be done. Right, the answer to that is zero.

Not happening, just like this bill's prospect of success in the Senate.

[ZenGum]

I too am wondering WTF these maniacs are doing. Even if this is resolved without default, they have done permanent damage to America's reputation and standing, not to mention their own economy and the world economy.

I ask myself, could they really be so crazy as to sabotage their own economy to make some pointless political statement?

Then I ask myself, are they so crazy they take creationism as a literal truth and believe the end times are upon us?

I do not like the answers.

Tinned food, people, it's the currency of the future.

[Trilby]

Originally Posted by ZenGum

I too am wondering WTF these maniacs are doing. Even if this is resolved without default, they have done permanent damage to America's reputation and standing, not to mention their own economy and the world economy.

I ask myself, could they really be so crazy as to sabotage their own economy to make some pointless political statement?

Then I ask myself, are they so crazy they take creationism as a literal truth and believe the end times are upon us?

I do not like the answers.

Tinned food, people, it's the currency of the future.

They hate on the right is so great, they would (and have done) happily destroy this country just so they can say look what happens when a black man runs the country.

[skysidhe]

The politicians are living in a bigger bubble than we all at first imagined.

To cut of the proverbial nose to spite the face. They don't seem to even care that people are even watching this fiasco, not to mention see it for what it really is.

[Griff]

Originally Posted by ZenGum

I ask myself, could they really be so crazy as to sabotage their own economy to make some pointless political statement?

The economy tanking with a Democrat in the Presidency is something some GOP partisans they think they can use. If you look at who is in the Congress (both sides of the aisle actually) you'll realize it isn't their economy. They live in a much different country than the rest of us.

[tw]

Never forget what the political agenda says. "We want Obama to fail". As stated by the philosophical leaders of the tea party - Limbaugh, Hannity, etc.

Destruction of America to have Obama fail is acceptable? We have never seen people at a crisis point literally walk out of negotiations so often. Eliminating government welfare to the rich is not even negotiable. That is not negotiation. That is an ultimatum.

Nobody thought that default was realistic. But then we have never had a Congress so full of extremists attached only to their political agendas. Who for ten years have created a recession using tax cuts and welfare to the rich. I am reevaluating this situation to avert financial losses. If the rich do not pay their fair share, then government debts cannot be solved. So many would rather harm America than do what obviously must be done.

"We want Obama to fail" means failure of America is acceptable. Any damage is acceptable as long as the political agenda is protected. Congress has a serious shortage of moderates. Congress has too many wacko extremists. The worst damage will be created by people (tea party members) who openly and gleefully say default is accptable (ie Michele Bachmann). After all, only their political agenda is relevant.

[Griff]

The amazing thing to me is what a weak bunch of self promoters these guys are. They pretend they are the heirs of the founding fathers, you know, the guys that assumed almost $80 million in debt with a population of 4 million, but really both parties seem to be adopting incompatible aspects of both Hamilton and Jefferson. It is time to cut spending and raise revenues. To continue down the path toward default means higher interest rates on the debt, more nothing for something. I've always felt that our governmental system was bloated, but could be addressed through honest methods. Deficit reduction of 1/3 revenue 2/3 spending cuts would be an honest start and start the discussion before election on how to do the rest.

[BigV]

Do you remember when we invaded Iraq? As Saddam was removed from power, the resulting void was filled with chaos, Shiites and Sunnis all trying to battle each other for a superior position in the coming government. Some were retaliating for previous offenses, perpetuating blood feuds. There were killings, kidnappings, bombings, threats, deceit. The voices that wanted the best for the country were drowned out or just drowned. We see the same thing in Afghanistan today. We see the same thing in Washington D.C. today.

The overriding loyalty to one's tribe, over and above all else is what we're seeing here. Well, that an just bone stupid too. That's a scary combination. To hear someone in a position of some power, some influence like Michelle Bachmann say that the debt ceiling doesn't matter, that the right course is to NOT raise it is simply dangerous ingnorance. That angers and scares me. But to hear talk like we're gonna make sure Obama has just one term and this is a golden opportunity to make him look bad, to contribute to his failure, thereby increasing our chances to look better by comparison so we can be elected in the next election. Words fail me. Callow, cowardly, selfish.

Our elected federal leaders have been chosen to make decisions and take actions about what is best for our country. The blatant loyalty to party / ideals / owners *above* loyalty to the Constitution and the good of the county MAKES ME SICK. Their oath was to the Constitution, not to their tribe.

[DanaC]

I heard on the radio that there's a possibility the US troops won't get paid? How can that even be a possibilty ffs?

[Trilby]

Originally Posted by DanaC

I heard on the radio that there's a possibility the US troops won't get paid? How can that even be a possibilty ffs?

that's true, Dana. People living on social security (grandma, disabled, nursing home patients, etc,) may not get paid, either, making it impossible for them to pay the most basic of bills (rent, food) This country is kicking the most vunerable and the ones in harms way to the curb to make sure Obama fails. it is truly sickening and I think it's about time for a revolution.


The hysteria of white America to this president is completely nutty.

[ZenGum]

Words fail me. Callow, cowardly, selfish.

How about "treasonous".

[DanaC]

Originally Posted by ZenGum

How about "treasonous".

Word.

[Trilby]

Originally Posted by ZenGum

How about "treasonous".

didn't you get Ann Coulter's memo?

Only liberals are treasonous.

[sexobon]

There have been previous government shutdowns due to budget battles going beyond annual budget due dates; but, I don't think there's been a delay in the military getting paid since about 1980. Means exist to get the military paid on time, even before a new budget is approved, should the politicians choose to do so rather than betray the military's trust for political leverage.