Joe Paterno to resign at end of season

[tw]

Originally Posted by Lamplighter

With regards to PSU, it was the entire local community that was supporting (and fostering) the atmospheric mania for football,

You are confusing other Division 1 football with Penn State. Penn State did something that most Division 1 schools would never do. Education was more important. That was Joe and his philosophy.

In Oklahoma, girls would even take long routes around dorms that housed football players. Because sexual harrassment was all but condoned by the Oklahoma coaching staff and therefore by the university administration. Major difference between the two schools.

What makes all this shocking is that Joe would even suspend major players for not maintaining their studies. Joe Paterno was something unique in Division 1 football. Academics and social responsiblity were required of his teams. That was not true in places such as the University of Miami.

Why is Joe's name on the main campus library? His reputation and team requirements. Making Penn State's graduation rates some of the highest in Division 1 football.

Whereas few in Penn State knew of the pedophilia, in the Catholic Church everyone knows the church was protecting pedophiles. Knew it for something less than 20 years. Lynn Abraham in Philadelphia did what no other district attorney in the US was doing. She subpoenaed a list of pedophiles directly from the Archdioceses records after the church denied such records existed. Ten years later, even Pennsylvania legislators refused to change pedophile laws. To make prosecution possible. Worse, the church did absolutely nothing for another ten years to address a problem that every Catholic knew existed.

Very few in Penn State knew of the pedophilia. In the last decade, only a liar would dney pedophilia was a problem everywhere in the Catholic Church.

On the same day that Sandusky was convicted, monsignor Lynn of the Philadelphia Archdioceses was also convicted of protecting pedophiles. He was the top man in charge of this issue. All Philadelphia Cardinals knew of the problem; had a pretty good idea how widely the problem existed. And did nothing. But they did ban Voices of the Faithful from church properties because they demanded reponsible action.

From that trial, we know most if not every Philadelphia bishop and Cardinal had lists of known pedophiles. And still reassigned those priests to locations where kids would be at risk.

We can suspect that Paterno had Sandusky all but removed from the program in 1999 due to what Paterno had heard in 1998. But the Catholic Church all but openly encouraged pedophile priests. Did absolutely nothing for decades involving hundreds of pedophiles modesting probably tens of thousands of kids.

One known pedophile priest was assigned to a home for teenage boys - St Gabriels. Sister Strange, also at that home, reported to the archdiocese that this priest was still things sexually unacceptable. So the church fired Sister Strange. Did Penn State fire McQueary for reporting pedophilia?

What happened in Penn State was bad. What the church did should be prosecuted as racketeering. The Church knew of hundreds or thousands of pedophiles. Protected them. And put them back in locations where those priests would be fully in contact with kids. The church is even protecting some 35 accused priests who fled from the US for prosecution of pedophilia. How many pedophiles is Penn State protecting?

The current Pope openly decided to ignore pedophilia when confronted by most of this nation's Cardinals who flew to Rome in mass to ask for action. Those that should like an honest institution?

Maybe we should banned Notre Dame, Holy Cross, and Villanova from football for two years due to a Pope that has clearly protected pedophiles. How many thousand pedophile priests have been reassigned to institutions where they would constantly be in contact with kids? Yes, not hundreds. Thousands. Proabably tens of thousands. View those numbers! Penn State has one. The church has how many thousands?

[Lamplighter]

<snip>Maybe we should banned Notre Dame, Holy Cross, and Villanova
from football for two years due to a Pope that has clearly protected pedophiles.<snip>

I won't argue and probably agree with all you've said about about
the failed responsibilities of the Church. But that last part is a non sequitur.

First, as I've posted earlier in this thread, I am feeling Parterno carries less
responsibility or fault than the administrators above him in this case.
But it seems that most pundits are saying that it was the football mania
that was the driving force at PSU, regardless of the academic esteem
that Paterno is credited with installing among his teams.

I can almost make a case that the root problem in the Vatican's actions comes
out a basic premise of the Catholic religion... confession and repenting.
So as long as a pedophile clergyman has "confessed and repented",
the church would find it necessary to adhere to "go forth and sin no more".

What I'm trying to argue is that the "football mania" was the root cause
of Sandusky getting away with his evil actions for such a long time.
But in the Catholic Church, as inexcusible as it is, the root cause
was an unintended consequence of a basic premise of their religion.

But maybe it's all a distinction without a difference...

[tw]

Originally Posted by Lamplighter

What I'm trying to argue is that the "football mania" was the root cause of Sandusky getting away with his evil actions for such a long time.

You cannot ignore numbers. 85% of all problems are directly traceable to top management. Management was more worried about their power. Their legacy. Their image. If the English Department had a squeaky clean image, the powers that be (ie Spanier, et al) would have done same. Because they - not football - was the problem.

Completely irresponsible is to blame the uninformed (ie university) for one pedophile case. And not demand the same violent revenge against the Catholic Church that has been doing this and worse by the thousands to tens of thousands. That is simply a double standard that no one has the right to uphold.

Worse, every Catholic knows this has been ongoiing. And did not get angry when Voices of the Faithful were saying so. Voices were even banned by the Church for only being honest. Every Catholic knows pedophilia was ongoing - and did almost nothing. Thereby all but endorsing pedophilia.

You would punish the teams and student body for what scumbag management (many from Wall Street) did? But you would forgive the entire Catholic Church for ignoring that church leaders openly did this for generations? Nonsese. The Church has a long history of Spanish Inquisitions when others are guilty of misdemenors. Why is the Church forgiven for tens of thousands of felonies?

No non sequitur here. If you make victims of the innocent in Penn State. Then you must also make victims the innocent in Notre Dame, Villanova, and Holy Cross and all Catholic High Schools. Their institutions had many more criminal priests. The crime was well known. The Pope and Cardinals did nothing. So we punish the little people? Punish the innocent?

The problem is directlyl traceable to top management. We should be beheading them all in the tradition of the church.

Church is guilty of pedophilia at the *racketeering* level. Penn State had one pedophile. Punishing all Catholics and Catholic schools (high school and college) is equivalent to punishing Penn State students and sport teams.

All Catholics knew pedophilia existed and was permitted. Most did nothing. Virtually no Penn State faculty, teams, and students knew anything about the only pedophile. So we punish them. Sound like another Spanish Inquistion to me.

[Spexxvet]

Originally Posted by Griff

So how do we break the corrupting culture of Penn State football? The game is so important that sex abuse was swept under the rug. They need to realign their priorities down there. The boosters are still the same people. I say death penalty for the program like SMU got years ago. Wipe the slate clean and discuss whether to bring it back, because right now football is more important than students, academics, and the community.

I'd say it wasn't about football, per se, it was about (surprise) MONEY.

[Lamplighter]

You would punish the teams and student body for what scumbag management (many from Wall Street) did?

"punish" is an odd choice of words.

What punishment would the "teams and students" incur ?
... No ice cream for you today, young man !

I heard one sports pundit positing that when the football program is suspended,
the current players would be given a free pass to move to any other school without penalty.
That is, PSU would continue to provide their current scholarship benefits.

As for the athletic department(s), maybe such a loss of $ would open more eyes in the future.
And for the football fanatic alumni... Get a life.
.

[tw]

Originally Posted by Lamplighter

What punishment would the "teams and students" incur ?

Players and students who had no knowledge of one pedophile must pick up and move somewhere else? Start all over again. Go from a school that also educates their football players to some other school that doesn't?

No problem. Catholics, who knew their church was condoning and protecting pedophiles, can be forced to pick up and move to some other church. No more services in any Catholic Church for two years. That's fair. You said that is not punishment? After all, it is all about the money? We (and news pundits) are only discussing who should be punished.

Everyone in the Church (including parishioners) knew of pedophile activity for over a decade. And did nothing (except a minority such as Voices of the Faithful who were punished for being honest). At least people who were guilty by association (or after the fact) would be punished by being forced to worship in some other venue. According to your Penn State example, parishioners force to worship elsewhere is also fair.

Pedophilia at Penn State is near zero. One person. Pedophilia in the Catholic Church is akin to racketeering - felonies by the thousands - maybe more. So we punish the innocent at Penn State for one pedophile? And protect an entire institution that condoned tens of thousands of felony counts? That is justice?

No matter how you spin it, it is a double standard if the Church does not incur massively more punishment. If any institution is punished for pedophilia, the worst offender - the Catholic Church - should be #1 on your list.

Name any other institution that so blatantly and offensively protected and encouraged pedophiles? Not a rhetorical question. To have an informed opinion means that question must be answered.

The church is protecting 35 accused pedophiles from American justice. Is Penn State?

If players and students in Penn State are punished, then so should every practicing Catholic. After all, all Catholics KNEW of the pedophilia for over a decade. Players and students at Penn State did not.

When do we bring the Pope to Geneva for his crimes against humanity? After all he knew about it and did nothing - both as a Pope and before as the Cardinal in charge of such problems. That makes him a kingpin. Or, like at Penn State, we should punish the parishioners because their church is a felonious racketeer? Parishioners knew about it - and did nothing. Practicing Catholics are more guilty than Penn State players and students. When was a double standard for justice acceptable? Show us an institution more guilty than the Catholic Church. Good luck.