Products You Never Knew Existed

[Happy Monkey]

Originally Posted by glatt

I'm not sure what the point is. Prevent evaporation? Keep small animals and deer out? Keep it clean?

Ptobably all that plus mosquitoes.

How do they learn that there is water in there? The younger ones can see the older ones doing it, I'm sure, but how was that first cow trained?

They probably left them out there for a few weeks without the balls at first.

[glatt]

Originally Posted by glatt

I'm not sure what the point is. Prevent evaporation? Keep small animals and deer out? Keep it clean? The water was actually kind of dirty with cud and cow backwash in it.

Originally Posted by Happy Monkey

Ptobably all that plus mosquitoes.

I Googled it.

We're both wrong. It keeps the water from freezing over in the winter.

[glatt]

Originally Posted by glatt

I Googled it.

We're both wrong. It keeps the water from freezing over in the winter.

And I was just able to look up this particular model. And at the risk of looking way to excited about this, it's really pretty cool.

You run a water line to this thing, and a float controlled valve, much like a float in the back of your toilet, fills the tank from below. Since you are running the water to it underground, below the frost line, it doesn't freeze in the winter, even in cold climates. The livestock just have to be actively using it so that the cold water in the tank is constantly being replaced by fresh water from the relatively warm underground pipe. In the summer, that same underground pipe means the water is cooler for the cows. And the balls keep the water temperature fairly constant.

The one I saw was about 300 yards uphill from the nearest building that had an obvious water supply, but I suppose you can run a hose underground for 300 yards. There was a dilapidated shed about 80 yards from this watering tank, and maybe the plumbing came from that shed.

[Ibby]

Originally Posted by glatt

...In the summer, that same underground pipe means the water is cooler for the cows...

I really wonder. Do cows care about the temperature of the water they drink?
Like, I'm fairly sure my puppy never cared if his water was cold or warm. He in fact seemed to prefer fairly tepid water to chilled water.

How would you go about trying to scientifically prove "enjoyment", not mere preference but actual sensual pleasure, from animals' reaction to various temperatures of accessible water?

There might be very good reasons why we would have evolved positive reactions to chilled beverage that other animals may not have evolved. And even if they show tendencies towards, or preferences for, certain temperatures of water, can we show ways that they actually ENJOY or otherwise have positive "emotional" reactions to having chilled water versus room-temperature water?

I'm mildly skeptical of, but mostly down with, the idea that animals PREFER colder water. Cold water is a good indicator of fresher spring-fed sources of water. But... while on my most animal-loving level, I want to equate that with ENJOYMENT OF colder water, is there any way to empirically show the sort of emotional enjoyment that we feel towards having cold drinks, in other animals?
Like, i'm serious - if anyone can help me understand, i'm not asking in a rhetorical, no-they-don't sort of way - i'm legitimately dead curious as to whether we can be sure that they really do have the sort of emotional concept of 'enjoying' something they prefer that we do.

[glatt]

That's nothing. How do you know when you see the color that we agree is called blue, you are seeing the same thing that I see when I see the color that we agree is called blue. Maybe my blue is more vivid than yours. How will we ever know? And we can communicate.

[Happy Monkey]

Originally Posted by Ibby

Like, i'm serious - if anyone can help me understand, i'm not asking in a rhetorical, no-they-don't sort of way - i'm legitimately dead curious as to whether we can be sure that they really do have the sort of emotional concept of 'enjoying' something they prefer that we do.

You can have empirical evidence of preference, by giving access to both, and checking frequency of use. You can have empirical evidence that brain areas associated with pleasure get activated by certain experiences. But, like glatt said, you can't be certain that other humans experience what you consider pleasure, let alone creatures with a different brain, different sensory apparattus, and drastically different life experiences.

But, if you consider the hypothesis that pleasure is just one way of reinforcing beneficial behaviors in the Rube Goldberg structure of the brain, then a marked preference (reinforced behavior) might be evidence for what the animal would experience as pleasure, if there were no other behavior reinforcers (ie pain when choosing the other alternative) detected.

eta: As for the puppy, one possible behavior modifier to look out for might be aversion to novelty in consumption. If the puppy's water is almost always lukewarm, it may be surprised and suspicious if the water is cold one day. Dogs aren't usually known for being particularly picky, but it would have to be something to rule out if an experiment were attempted.