What is "freedom"?

Telefunken · 03-05-2004, 11:52 AM

Answer this question in your own words.

Beestie · 03-05-2004, 12:14 PM

Doing what you want to do in an environment where everyone else doing likewise doesn't impede your ability to do the same.

Griff · 03-05-2004, 03:12 PM

Doing whatever Ashcroft says.

xoxoxoBruce · 03-05-2004, 06:12 PM

One of the best improvised pieces Richie Havens ever did.

blue · 03-05-2004, 06:21 PM

Man, geez...I'd tell you but the title of this thread combined with my personal views pisses me off so much I cannot type.

We live in the greatest country on the planet, but brother we are not free.

So I'll check back later after I ride helmet free down my county road past my welfare neighbors wondering If I could call some dude in India to fix my fucking crap stuff that I got a good deal on from China.

Griff · 03-05-2004, 06:38 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by xoxoxoBruce
One of the best improvised pieces Richie Havens ever did.

Nice! That's a fine cut.

blue · 03-05-2004, 06:48 PM

OK, check...I veered way too hell over the fence into other crap there.

We are not free, maybe never will be.....maybe the militia guys are right? If any one of you here truly feels free I'd love to hear why.

xoxoxoBruce · 03-05-2004, 07:05 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by blue58
OK, check...I veered way too hell over the fence into other crap there.

We are not free, maybe never will be.....maybe the militia guys are right? If any one of you here truly feels free I'd love to hear why.

Because here you can write what you wrote and not have to hide under the bed tonight....at least for now.

smoothmoniker · 03-05-2004, 07:10 PM

About two years ago, my wife decided that she wanted to start a new business, designing and arranging flowers for large events.

This morning, at 4 am, she went to the Los Angeles flower market, where people from dozens of countries, many not speaking any english, offered to sell her flowers. If she thought the price was fair, she bought them. If not, she walked past. No one intervened.

All day, she's been using her skills to place the flowers she bought in arrangments so that the final product is worth more than the raw materials. She will sell that arrangment to a mexican-american family that is celebrating their daughter's quinceniera. No one will intervene.

Later tonight, we'll use that money to take a friend out to dinner. He's leaving the country for 7 months to go play drums in Japan. No one knocked on the door to ask him why he was leaving, and no one will try to shoot him in the back at the border. He will live by the consequences of his decision, and when he is done, will come home. No one will intervene.

What is freedom? We make choices about how to use our time and skills to make ourselves useful to society, and we live by the consequences of those decisions. By and large, no one intervenes. We make choices about how to engage in moral behavior, and except where those moral decisions intefere with the rights of others, we live by the consequences of those decisions. By and large, with a few notable exceptions (prostitutions and drug use, maybe?), no one intervenes.

-sm

beavis · 03-09-2004, 12:41 PM

i got 20 bucks that says you didn't get up at 4 in the morning with her...

jaguar · 03-09-2004, 12:59 PM

blue58...um wouldn't the success of outsourcing imply greater freedom?

The fact I can look up any subject I want unimpeded on the net.
The fact I can walk out the door with my wallet and fly to almost any country on earth without notice or intervention.

Absolute freedom is slippery, in reality it's closer to a paradox. If I'm free to blow your head off you're not all that free anymore. Stupid anarchists. Always felt anarchists were people too apathetic to form political opinions. Either that or clever fellow who sell anarchists 'smash capitalism' stickers. /offtopic.

Griff · 03-09-2004, 03:21 PM

No one preventing you from taking the chances that make life worth living.

ex: Not long ago in rural PA you could buy a piece of land, throw up your cabin and nobody would try to control your project in any meaningful way. When I did my place, the main state obstacle was the septic system. The state demanded a sand mound whether you were using composting toilets or not. Now they want to inspect your home throughout the building process and prevent you from building in any manner which they don't find code worthy. If you haven't figured it out yet this legislation is a nice little gift to the construction industry, since many folks can build on their own but few are willing to jump through the hoops.

edit Engrish

smoothmoniker · 03-09-2004, 05:38 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by beavis
i got 20 bucks that says you didn't get up at 4 in the morning with her...

I'm still agnostic as to whether the other 4 o'clock exists, or if it's just a metaphor.

beavis · 03-09-2004, 05:46 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by smoothmoniker

I'm still agnostic as to whether the other 4 o'clock exists, or if it's just a metaphor.

the existence of 4 a.m. is contingent on whether or not it happens to be poker night.

smoothmoniker · 03-09-2004, 09:50 PM

oh, hot damn. Sorry Beavis, I didn't recognize you. Welcome to this little corner of the web.

Yeah, staying up till 4 am playing hold'em is a very, very different thing than waking up at 4 am to go be a productive member of society.

-sm

03-05-2004, 11:52 AM	#1
Telefunken Going for the DX Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Taxachusetts Posts: 82	What is "freedom"? Answer this question in your own words.

03-05-2004, 12:14 PM	#2
Beestie -◊\|≡·∙■·∙≡\|◊- Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Parts unknown. Posts: 4,081	Doing what you want to do in an environment where everyone else doing likewise doesn't impede your ability to do the same. __________________ ♠ ♥ ♣ ♦

03-05-2004, 03:12 PM	#3
Griff still says videotape Join Date: Feb 2001 Posts: 26,813	Doing whatever Ashcroft says. __________________ If you would only recognize that life is hard, things would be so much easier for you. - Louis D. Brandeis

03-05-2004, 06:12 PM	#4
xoxoxoBruce The future is unwritten Join Date: Oct 2002 Posts: 71,105	One of the best improvised pieces Richie Havens ever did. __________________ The descent of man ~ Nixon, Friedman, Reagan, Trump.

03-05-2004, 06:21 PM	#5
blue Operations Operative Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Northern WI Posts: 739	Man, geez...I'd tell you but the title of this thread combined with my personal views pisses me off so much I cannot type. We live in the greatest country on the planet, but brother we are not free. So I'll check back later after I ride helmet free down my county road past my welfare neighbors wondering If I could call some dude in India to fix my fucking crap stuff that I got a good deal on from China. __________________ If you spot a tornado, always remember to point at it, yell "tornado!", and run like hell.

03-05-2004, 06:48 PM	#7
blue Operations Operative Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Northern WI Posts: 739	OK, check...I veered way too hell over the fence into other crap there. We are not free, maybe never will be.....maybe the militia guys are right? If any one of you here truly feels free I'd love to hear why. __________________ If you spot a tornado, always remember to point at it, yell "tornado!", and run like hell.

03-05-2004, 07:10 PM	#9
smoothmoniker to live and die in LA Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Los Angeles Posts: 2,090	About two years ago, my wife decided that she wanted to start a new business, designing and arranging flowers for large events. This morning, at 4 am, she went to the Los Angeles flower market, where people from dozens of countries, many not speaking any english, offered to sell her flowers. If she thought the price was fair, she bought them. If not, she walked past. No one intervened. All day, she's been using her skills to place the flowers she bought in arrangments so that the final product is worth more than the raw materials. She will sell that arrangment to a mexican-american family that is celebrating their daughter's quinceniera. No one will intervene. Later tonight, we'll use that money to take a friend out to dinner. He's leaving the country for 7 months to go play drums in Japan. No one knocked on the door to ask him why he was leaving, and no one will try to shoot him in the back at the border. He will live by the consequences of his decision, and when he is done, will come home. No one will intervene. What is freedom? We make choices about how to use our time and skills to make ourselves useful to society, and we live by the consequences of those decisions. By and large, no one intervenes. We make choices about how to engage in moral behavior, and except where those moral decisions intefere with the rights of others, we live by the consequences of those decisions. By and large, with a few notable exceptions (prostitutions and drug use, maybe?), no one intervenes. -sm

03-09-2004, 12:41 PM	#10
beavis butthead died Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: mtv reruns Posts: 88	i got 20 bucks that says you didn't get up at 4 in the morning with her...

03-09-2004, 12:59 PM	#11
jaguar whig Join Date: Apr 2001 Posts: 5,075	blue58...um wouldn't the success of outsourcing imply greater freedom? The fact I can look up any subject I want unimpeded on the net. The fact I can walk out the door with my wallet and fly to almost any country on earth without notice or intervention. Absolute freedom is slippery, in reality it's closer to a paradox. If I'm free to blow your head off you're not all that free anymore. Stupid anarchists. Always felt anarchists were people too apathetic to form political opinions. Either that or clever fellow who sell anarchists 'smash capitalism' stickers. /offtopic. __________________ Good friends, good books and a sleepy conscience: this is the ideal life. - Twain

03-09-2004, 03:21 PM	#12
Griff still says videotape Join Date: Feb 2001 Posts: 26,813	No one preventing you from taking the chances that make life worth living. ex: Not long ago in rural PA you could buy a piece of land, throw up your cabin and nobody would try to control your project in any meaningful way. When I did my place, the main state obstacle was the septic system. The state demanded a sand mound whether you were using composting toilets or not. Now they want to inspect your home throughout the building process and prevent you from building in any manner which they don't find code worthy. If you haven't figured it out yet this legislation is a nice little gift to the construction industry, since many folks can build on their own but few are willing to jump through the hoops. edit Engrish __________________ If you would only recognize that life is hard, things would be so much easier for you. - Louis D. Brandeis Last edited by Griff; 03-09-2004 at 04:12 PM.

03-09-2004, 09:50 PM	#15
smoothmoniker to live and die in LA Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Los Angeles Posts: 2,090	oh, hot damn. Sorry Beavis, I didn't recognize you. Welcome to this little corner of the web. Yeah, staying up till 4 am playing hold'em is a very, very different thing than waking up at 4 am to go be a productive member of society. -sm

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