Watching the Democrats - it's Fun and Macabre!

[Adak]

Originally Posted by tw

How ironic. We once had as many if not more mentally ill citizens. And did not need guns everywhere to protect kids. What changed? Suddenly everyone needs military weapons including 155 mm howitzers. After all, the solution to violence and mentally ill people is more guns - so says the NRA. Extremists will eventually demand their rights to own a howitzer. After all, the NRA says everyone should have as many assult rifles and artillery necessary to protection to protect themselves.

We don't need - or have - military weapons. What we have are regular semi-automatic weapons which LOOK like military weapons. It's like you took your car, and painted it like a tank - would it BE a tank?

Why the mention of 155 howitzers? Just being sarcastic, or did you have a point?

We have long known the only reason for increased gun violence. Well documented in history. More guns means gun violence then increases significantly. This was especially true just after the civil war and during the 1920s. Two periods where gun possession increased to record levels and was followed by increased violent death rates.

Right after the Civil War we had nearly half the adult population of America, with PTSD. Either they were in the war, or they knew close friends or relatives, who were - plus the nation was being torn apart by huge social issues of slavery/abolition, and states seceding, from the Union, etc.

And at that time, no one knew about PTSD, and nothing was done to help fix that problem, or even acknowledge it existed.

Same in the 1920's - remember we had just gone through the greatest war in the world, at that time, complete with mustard gas attacks, AND were in the grips of the worst influenza outbreak (which killed more people than the war did, in total), sweeping around the world, in repeating waves.

Talk about PTSD!

When did gun violence decrease? When the population had less guns. When guns were sold more for hunting game - not people. What did the wild west do to stop violent deaths? Everyone surrendered their guns before entering town. Facts that contradict emotions promoted by the NRA. Facts that have always been known.

Before the cowboys and farmers come into town to get drunk on Friday night, yes - no guns in town, was very smart. Also, it showed in no uncertain terms that the LAW was in force in the town - which was not always the case in the wild west towns.

"There is no law west of Dodge, and no God, west of the Pecos." was the expression I recall hearing from generations, passed down.

Today we should have armed guards at every ATM. And National Guard with M-16s in every grocery store. Because the NRA says so. The gun industry will then give the NRA even more money.

Is the need for armed guards (that significantly reduce America's incomes and standards of living) a solution? Yes, because every teacher and child should have a gun to protect themselves. Even though history says more guns only reduce public safety. One can think like an emotional child. Or one can finally address the only reason for so much violence. 100 round clips, assault rifles, hollow point and armor piecing bullets, and an NRA that promoted the fear and violence - in the US and Mexico.

That 'big dic' thinking and the resulting hardware is the only thing that changed. As a result, violent deaths are increasing.

You're full of beans - violent crimes involving guns has decreased over the past 50 years, on a per capita basis, according to the FBI stats on this.

Get your facts straight, please.

We have "big dic" thinking, because we have lots of "no Dad" families, and without that influence, young men go beyond social norms in aggression. Other factors: drug problems, and on-going wars which force Dads in the service, to go overseas.

You can especially see this in the black communities. There are SO MANY families with just Mom and the kids.

I agree that civilians don't need, and shouldn't have access to:

armor piercing bullets, teflon tipped bullets (they penetrate body armor), large capacity magazines, and any caliber weapon larger than a .350 caliber.

I'm not a big game hunter, but I'm confident you could hunt an elephant successfully with a .338 Lapua or a .300 Winchester Magnum.

If you're hunting game, hollow point ammo is required. Target rounds will not kill game before it runs off.

[tw]

Originally Posted by Adak

Get your facts straight, please.

And then blames it all on families without fathers. Or PTSD because it was only recently discovered. I just can't decide which one deserves more laughter. Since no numbers can quantify something that extreme.

If you're hunting game, hollow point ammo is required.

So how did the great white hunters do so much game hunting in Africa? They did not have hollow point. Could not fire 47 rounds per minute. And managed to kill in record numbers. Well, today hollow point rounds are needed to hunt humans. Since humans are now fair game in America, we need weapons far more destructive than what great white hunters once needed. After all, hunting 1st graders may become harder than hunting elephants.

More assault weapons and hollow point bullets - to kill people - are needed.

Just using your logic (or do I need permission).

[Adak]

Originally Posted by tw

And then blames it all on families without fathers. Or PTSD because it was only recently discovered. I just can't decide which one deserves more laughter. Since no numbers can quantify something that extreme.

It was only recently given a NAME, but even in the old testament, soldiers returning from battle were required to spend a day or two sleeping in camp. This was to "purify" their hearts, of the blood lust.

Any adolescent counselor will tell you straight away, the problem that typically arises with males who have had no father figure in their life.

If you ever work with adolescent males, you will notice the difference very quickly - not always of course, but generally, it's apparent when the teenage boy is missing his male parent.

So how did the great white hunters do so much game hunting in Africa? They did not have hollow point. Could not fire 47 rounds per minute. And managed to kill in record numbers. Well, today hollow point rounds are needed to hunt humans. Since humans are now fair game in America, we need weapons far more destructive than what great white hunters once needed. After all, hunting 1st graders may become harder than hunting elephants.

More assault weapons and hollow point bullets - to kill people - are needed.

Just using your logic (or do I need permission).

You need to get your facts straight. Hollow point bullets were invented in the 1890's, sometimes called "Express" bullets, since they were meant for high-powered rifles which were called "Express" rifles, in those days.

With hollow point bullets you tend to kill what you hit, AND you significantly lower the chance that the bullet will pass right through the bad guy, and kill a by-stander, behind them. That's why police departments insist on hollow point bullets for their officers.

On animals, it kills quicker - allowing the hunter to locate the game, and get it out of there, before bears, lions, or packs of hyenas, come to try and take it for themselves. Also, it prevents a much slower and painful death, than regular bullets.




Before hollow point bullets were invented, the few big game hunters were pretty creative. They coated their bullets with poison, (destroyed by cooking the meat), they filed the heads of the bullet, into a more pointed shape. They took along several rifles and used backup shooters, if needed. They had a fire line put down, ready to flare up if needed, between where they were shooting, and the game. Even a wounded elephant will not run into a hefty fire line. They used the terrain - elephants and such, will not climb up even a small rocky ledge - but leopards will.

There is no such thing as "assault" rifles. Any weapon used to assault the enemy, is an assault weapon. It could be a stick, your fist, or anything else. There are short rifles, sometimes called carbines, and there are long rifles, usually just called rifles. Any weapon used for an assault, is an assault weapon, period.

Making up words to suit your version of facts, won't help your argument.

I agree with you that some types of ammo, and some types of rifles, (as noted in my previous post), should be removed from sales within the country.

But like anything else, if the law is there, it can and predictably will be, broken, by people who don't care about following the law. Those are the people we should be concerned about. Yes, it would be good to ban certain guns and ammo - but we need to also harden our schools a bit, also.

This is not the 1950's, and our country is not like the one we had in those days. We need to adapt, and we need to harden our schools - not outlaw CCW permits, gun sales, etc.

The bad guys will always have guns - look at Brevik in Norway, or Lanza in Newtown. Both found a way around the law, and worked their way into a crowd of innocent and disarmed kids and counselors/teachers.

Like shooting fish in a barrel, wouldn't you say? The kids are cornered in the classrooms at Sandy Hook, the campers in Norway are trapped on a small island.

Our kids need protection, and that's just the fact of the matter.

[Adak]

We've had a WAR On Drugs, for 40 years or more - has anyone noticed a lack of illegal drugs on the streets? Occasionally, but not for long.

We had Prohibition on Alcohol, in the 1920's - did anyone notice a lack of alcohol being available? No, people found ways around that law.

If we outlaw guns, (like Norway has done), do you believe that criminals like Brevik will NOT somehow get their hands on guns, or explosives, or other weapons?

Will people like Lanza or Spengler NOT want to kill us? Spengler left a note saying "Killing is what I like doing". He wanted to not only kill the firemen and police, but also burn down his whole neighborhood - and made a good start at both those sick goals.

What stopped Spengler from killing more than two firemen, (and wounding a few more)?

A guy with a gun started shooting BACK AT HIM! No mass slaughter here, because someone had a gun, and knew how to use it.

Quote:
Authorities do not know how Spengler obtained the Bushmaster rifle, .38-caliber revolver and 12-gauge shotgun he used, Pickering said. As a convicted felon, Spengler was not allowed to legally possess weapons.


Spengler would have killed many more people, EXCEPT a policeman shielded the wounded firemen on the ground with his car, AND SHOT BACK at SPENGLER WITH his rifle.

What have we learned today?

* Criminals don't CARE about gun laws - they will get guns or other weapons they can use against YOU.

* It behooves you to have a gun to shoot them when they try to kill you.

Apologies for boring the liberals who seem completely unable to understand this basic premise.

Here's a little lesson from nature:

Without a firearm, we are the warthog - careful, but still vulnerable, and still a victim. (not for the squeamish):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9-UX0w2yA2A

Part of the above is a copy from my post in the gun control thread. Since the Democrats have been screaming for gun control, it's topical in both threads, imo.