So the short fat Latino dude ...

[Adak]

Originally Posted by Happy Monkey

Every hearing Issa holds on that "scandal" ends up making it less and less scandalous.

May seem like it, but it's winding it's way upward. Started as a few "rogue" IRS agents, then it went to a Cincinnati IRS manager who got off the rails a bit, but now it's up to Obama's own appointee.

We'll have his name before long.

[Happy Monkey]

Winding its way downward. It seemed pretty bad when first reported, when it seemed like they were doing it to only the right, but that turned out to be false. The guy who initially reported that they were targetting the Tea Party turned out to have been told to find any bad treatment of the Tea Party, and failed to report that the list of keywords was across the board.

Who "it's up to" doesn't matter much if "it" isn't actually a scandal.

[BigV]

Conversely, if they "who it's up to" has already been decided, the "it" is merely a placeholder.

[richlevy]

Adak, only one story got told because only one person walked away. Let's say that Trayvon turned and noticed that Zimmerman had drawn a gun. Even without Stand Your Ground, it's not possible to outrun a bullet. So he closes and attempts to disarm Zimmerman, which might include tackling him into the concrete. It was never clear how Zimmerman could have gotten to his gun lying on his back. Unless he already had his gun already drawn. After all, isn't that what real cops do when approaching a dangerous suspect? So wouldn't a wannabe follow the same procedure?

If Zimmerman drew his weapon before being attacked, then "Stand Your Ground" was with Trayvon. Not that it would have done him any good if he'd been the sole survivor.

[Lamplighter]

3) Martin became aware of Zimmerman following him,
by the time he got back to his girl friends house.
He handed her the candy he'd bought at the local store,
and told her he was going "to fix that cracker", that was following him.

@Adak, this is a statement I have not heard before,
and have not been able to find via my Google searches.

What I have found are sequences of events that speak to phone calls
between Martin and his girl friend, both before and at the time of the shooting.



What I have also found is the following statement in this link,
and that agrees with what I had heard reported over the course of these events...

At the time of his death, the teenager is unarmed and carrying a small amount of cash,
a bag of Skittles candy and a can of iced tea.

These seem to me to be significant enough to affect people's opinions about the jury finding.

Adak, Will you please document or cite a link
to support your statement that Martin actually arrived at his girl friend's home,
and then went back to "fix that cracker".

[DanaC]

I'll take a wild stab in the dark and say someone on Fox News said it?

[BigV]

Lamplighter, you should go outside, *now*, and check your hubcaps.

[Lamplighter]

[ZenGum]

Is that why rims are so popular? Much harder to steal?

[sexobon]

Originally Posted by richlevy

... Let's say that Trayvon turned and noticed that Zimmerman had drawn a gun. Even without Stand Your Ground, it's not possible to outrun a bullet. So he closes and attempts to disarm Zimmerman, ...

It's entirely possible to avoid being shot if you don't give someone a reason to shoot at you by closing on them. Police draw down on suspects all the time without shooting them. Even Martin would have known that. He would also have known that if Zimmerman wanted to shoot him at that time, there was opportunity to do it before he could react.

Originally Posted by richlevy

... It was never clear how Zimmerman could have gotten to his gun lying on his back. Unless he already had his gun already drawn. After all, isn't that what real cops do when approaching a dangerous suspect? So wouldn't a wannabe follow the same procedure? ...

If Zimmerman had been imitating police procedure by having his gun already drawn, he would have done so from a safe distance and shot at Martin when Martin closed on him before Martin reached him. That's what the police would do. I've not heard any claim that more than one shot was fired.

A plausible explanation would be a combat handgun technique called the rock back draw. It can be performed standing or as one is being taken down to the ground. The shooter uses one arm to push off from an assailant at point blank range, the shooter bending backwards at the waist, creating more distance for the other arm to draw and fire unimpeded from the waist. Zimmerman could have drawn his gun just before he hit the ground and then waited until he felt he couldn't recover before firing. Of course, this would've had to have happened without Martin realizing what Zimmerman was up to it since there doesn't seem to have been an ensuing struggle for the weapon between when it was drawn and when it was fired.

The more likely explanation is that Zimmerman was able to arch the small of his back or twist his body just enough to create a space to draw the gun. All it takes is a hand-on-gun thickness of space to free the gun and very little maneuvering to get it into firing position, especially when an assailant doesn't realize it's there. That Zimmerman was unable to better protect his head using both of his arms to block Martin's thrusts and blows indicates that Zimmerman may have been using one arm for retrieving the gun while he was on the ground and that Martin, concentrating on battering Zimmerman's head, simply didn't have a clue as to why he was having such an easy time of it until he was shot.

Hypothetically speaking of course.

[Lamplighter]

It's entirely possible to avoid being shot...

... just don't wear a hoodie.

All the rest is hypothetical. Right ?

[sexobon]

Left.

[Adak]

Originally Posted by Lamplighter

@Adak, this is a statement I have not heard before,
and have not been able to find via my Google searches.

What I have found are sequences of events that speak to phone calls
between Martin and his girl friend, both before and at the time of the shooting.

Attachment 44856

What I have also found is the following statement in this link,
and that agrees with what I had heard reported over the course of these events...

These seem to me to be significant enough to affect people's opinions about the jury finding.

Unfortunately, no.

That was reported by the media, immediately after the incident. Of course, I was interested in the case, and began perusing several media sources - on the net, and several radio stations, including KNX 1070 (a CBS Affiliate), out of Los Angeles, and a local FOX radio station, among others.

Then everything started changing:

The DA found nothing to charge Zimmerman with, after several hours of questioning, after the shooting, but in the wake of pressure from the community, a new prosecutor miraculously found Zimmerman should be charged with murder!

Martin's dad changed his opinion of the voice screaming for help on the 911 calls (to the dispatcher), but nobody could agree, even the "experts" and the FBI.

Some sources are saying Zimmerman changed his story as well. The witnesses changed theirs. Quite the mess.

I did find this, very interesting though:

Martin had been suspended from school at the time of his death.[22] He had been suspended twice before. One suspension was for tardiness and truancy.[23] Another suspension in October 2011 was for graffiti, when Martin was observed by a security camera in a restricted area of the school marking up a door with "W.T.F."[23]

When he was later searched by a Miami-Dade School Police Department officer, looking for the graffiti marker, the officer found several pieces of women's jewelry in his backpack, which Martin said a friend had given to him. A screwdriver was also found, which was described by the school police investigator as a burglary tool.

The jewelry was impounded and given to the police, but no evidence ever surfaced to indicate that the jewelry was stolen.[23] Martin's third suspension involved a marijuana pipe and an empty bag containing marijuana residue.[22] Martin was not charged with any crime related to these incidents and did not have a juvenile record.[24] Judge Nelson ruled that the defense may have access to Martin's records, including the details of these suspensions, as well as access to Martin's social media sites,[25] but ruled they will not be admissible as evidence during the trial unless they can be shown to be relevant.[26]

Also this:

Crimes committed at The Retreat (the name of the gated community, inside the larger Twin Lakes development apparently), in the year prior to Martin's death included eight burglaries, nine thefts, and one shooting.[61] Twin Lakes residents said there were dozens of reports of attempted break-ins, which had created an atmosphere of fear in their neighborhood.

Other burglaries by young black males in the recent past, in the community, and Zimmerman got a pistol (rather than a pepper sprayer), because he was advised to do so by Animal Control, after a vicious pit bull cornered his wife.

In the actual call to the PD, Zimmerman says Martin is approaching him, while he's still in his truck. "With his hands in his waistband".

You can hear the entire call to the PD (not a dispatcher on this call), and read all the above quoted info, on Wikipedia:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shooting_of_Trayvon_Martin

Zimmerman doesn't sound like a racist, to me. Listen for yourself. There's a ton of other info on this - what evidence was allowed at the trial, and what evidence was not allowed, and why.

Zimmerman's description of Martin "he's just walking around, looking into houses..."

does strike me as suspicious, in light of Martin's previous possession of several pieces of women's jewelry, and a screwdriver.

I have never heard of a teenage guy walking around, carrying several pieces of womens' jewelry, and a screwdriver.

That is a burglar.

Was he "casing" homes when Zimmerman found him? I have no idea. But he definitely was a burglar when he was caught earlier with the womens' jewelry and screwdriver.

Ask any cop.

Martin didn't deserve to be shot over a burglary, but it shows why Zimmerman wanted to confront Martin.

[xoxoxoBruce]

Hmm, jewelry and a screwdriver... must have been looking for the white women.

[Adak]

Originally Posted by DanaC

I'll take a wild stab in the dark and say someone on Fox News said it?

Yes, very likely it was Fox News I have a fox radio station very close to me, and listen to it a lot.

The gf testified Martin said:

"creepy ass cracker"

in describing the man who was following him.

I can't find any reference to Martin using the term "fix", in that phrase.