So the short fat Latino dude ...

[sexobon]

Originally Posted by glatt

What bothers me most about Zimmerman is that he's not a cop or authority of any kind. He was told by the cops twice (once when he signed up for the watch group, and once when on the phone that night) not to confront suspicious people.

Because he got himself into a situation when he had no training or business someone ended up dead. In my mind, that's negligence. It would be like if I wired the electricity for my neighborhood pool and winded up electrocuting a bunch of swimmers because I'm not an electrician. Zimmerman deliberately went into that situation against the wishes of the police. He fucked up and killed an unarmed guy who wasn't doing anything wrong before Zimmerman got involved.

I don't think it was murder. He was probably defending himself from a guy who thought he was defending himself. But is was gross incompetence on Zimmerman's part that resulted in a death.

I think it would be just and reasonable to find him guilty of manslaughter or negligent homicide.

Your line of reasoning is good up to the point that if the neighborhood expected the police to satisfy their needs, they wouldn't have implemented a neighborhood watch in the first place. The police always advise others to let them handle it. The problem is that there's always a conflict of interest between them being the best qualified and them just saying others should let them handle it because it's their job security. The police know very well that they are reactive while the neighborhood watch is proactive. The neighborhood knows that too. Zimmerman was a product of that disparity. To his shame he became over zealous in his proactive role; but, to say he's not an authority of any kind is a bit over the top:

[Gomer Pyle]CITIZEN'S ARREST! CITIZEN'S ARREST![/Gomer Pyle]

If poor judgment was a crime, he'd be guilty.

[BigV]

Originally Posted by sexobon

Your line of reasoning is good up to the point that if the neighborhood expected the police to satisfy their needs, they wouldn't have implemented a neighborhood watch in the first place. The police always advise others to let them handle it. The problem is that there's always a conflict of interest between them being the best qualified and them just saying others should let them handle it because it's their job security. The police know very well that they are reactive while the neighborhood watch is proactive. The neighborhood knows that too. Zimmerman was a product of that disparity. To his shame he became over zealous in his proactive role; but, to say he's not an authority of any kind is a bit over the top:

[Gomer Pyle]CITIZEN'S ARREST! CITIZEN'S ARREST![/Gomer Pyle]

If poor judgment was a crime, he'd be guilty.

You know, authority is a lot like the right of way--it can not be seized, it can only be yielded to. You can't take the right of way in an intersection, any more than I can. One of us can yield the right of way to the other, one of us is (probably) entitled to the right of way according to the rules of the road, but if neither of us yields, there will be conflict.

Authority is like that, unless it is recognized by both parties, there is no authority. In a situation where the rules for authority are clear, say with a policeman and a civilian and the policeman is acting within his authority by the rules, it is only the acceptance by the civilian of the authority of the policeman that makes the authority real. When that authority is challenged, there can be conflict, possibly fatal results. The policeman might have been due the authority, but he'd be (could be) dead right. That's not authority.

But Zimmerman's role doesn't even rise to this level, there's no formal set of rules granting any kind of authority to him, certainly no authority greater than what Martin was entitled to. Unless you cite the law of the jungle or might makes right. We live in a society that has explicitly rejected those frames of reference though. In our civil society, all appeals to that kind of justification are attempted are rejected.

The only basis for Zimmerman's "authority" came from his confidence that he could shoot his way out of any situation he might find himself in. If you have other evidence of some other authority granted to him, I'd like to hear it.