Obama Care vs Republicans

[Lamplighter]

Originally Posted by Adak

And Lamplighter, do you ACTUALLY believe that most employers
will be continuing to pay into a medical insurance plan, that isn't required, for their employees?
<snip>
Because I can assure you, if they're not forced to, most businesses will not be
just throwing money into some expense that they don't have to.

Yes, I do.

Employers with an annual employee levels of less than 30 FTE (full time equivalents)
remain exempt from Obamacare, and larger businesses (50 FTE) are required to provide health insurance.

Even if some employers change their benefits, it will be a relatively small
part of the economy, and will eventually sort itself out over the years.

But to your point...

The economics of employee benefits does not change just because of Obamacare.
Employers can spend $ on wages or on employee benefits, such as health care... their choice.
But tax benefits to the employer of the costs of health insurance are 35%

So, employers can balance spending 100% more in a salary raise,
against only 65% more in an increase in benefits to the employee... their choice.

That is not even considering the more "emotional" side of maintaining
employer/employee relationships, including such impacts on the business
as employee turn-over, employee illness/absense, positive employee motivations towards the business, etc.

[Happy Monkey]

Originally Posted by Adak

And Lamplighter, do you ACTUALLY believe that most employers will be continuing to pay into a medical insurance plan, that isn't required, for their employees?

"Continuing" answers your question. It wasn't required before the ACA, and they did it.

[infinite monkey]

I reposted because my post got orphaned and it would be a damn shame if Adak didn't see how unfactual his facts are: even to the widdle childwen we are supposed to get all sentimental about.

Originally Posted by Adak

Wrong again!

Like most Congressmen, he keeps in touch with his family during the time they're in Washington, by using things like Skype, and the telephone, etc.

That includes reading bedtime stories, to his two sons. Man, you guys are a cynical bunch.

Originally Posted by infinite monkey

Wrong again!


Cruz has two daughters.

[Adak]

Originally Posted by Lamplighter

Yes, I do.

Employers with an annual employee levels of less than 30 FTE (full time equivalents)
remain exempt from Obamacare, and larger businesses (50 FTE) are required to provide health insurance.

Many of our largest companies (in terms of their number of employees), have already been given exemptions!

And the Union officials met with Obama just recently. Oh, they're not saying what deal was reached - but they got one, probably won't kick in until 2015 though, and all the fuss dies down.

I don't know what to say, except that businesses (unlike our stupid fed gov't), will NOT continue to support "Cadillac" health care plans, for the vast majority of their work force.

A few VIP's, sure. The rest - no. Oh, Apple might, because they're VERY flush with $$$ right now. The vast majority will not, however.

Even if some employers change their benefits, it will be a relatively small
part of the economy, and will eventually sort itself out over the years.

But to your point...

The economics of employee benefits does not change just because of Obamacare.
Employers can spend $ on wages or on employee benefits, such as health care... their choice.
But tax benefits to the employer of the costs of health insurance are 35%

So, employers can balance spending 100% more in a salary raise,
against only 65% more in an increase in benefits to the employee... their choice.

That is not even considering the more "emotional" side of maintaining
employer/employee relationships, including such impacts on the business
as employee turn-over, employee illness/absense, positive employee motivations towards the business, etc.

Over 12,000 pages of regulations SO FAR for Obama Care, and you say the health care provisions of the past, won't be changed?

I disagree.

"Grandma" disagrees, as well. When said we should "just send her home with a pain pill", (instead of giving her a treatment), I believe every word of it.

They have it in Great Britain, also. You get old, and now you don't qualify for this or that treatment, any more.

Here's your pain pill. That will work wonders to cure your cancer.

[Adak]

Originally Posted by infinite monkey

I reposted because my post got orphaned and it would be a damn shame if Adak didn't see how unfactual his facts are: even to the widdle childwen we are supposed to get all sentimental about.

Sorry, I've been working on a computer program for external sorting, and I don't care if Sen. Cruz has sons or daughters. Castigating the man for reading them a bed time story for a few minutes, when the floor of the Senate is virtually empty, is WRONG.

And you're quite uncivil in your doing so, may I say.

[infinite monkey]

Oh, you can say it, but at this point don't expect anything you say to hold much water.

But I did enjoy the 'harumphy' feel of it.

[Lamplighter]

Today, the GOP got it's way... they did not compromise or miss a beat
in their refusal to do anything but act as bullies,
... leaving others to deal with the consequences of their
obsessive compulsion over Obamacare.

If you are inconvenienced, in even a minor way, by this government shut down,
think back about Adak, and his hero (R) Senator Cruz from Texas, aka "Mister Green Eggs",
and the unsagacious GOP.

(I know, that's not really a word... but neither is the GOP a coherent party)
.

[Adak]

We've had a long series of lies on spending, from the Democrats. Reagan, Bush Sr. Carter, Bush Jr., - all their administrations were promised by the Democrats, that they'd cut spending in a meaningful and timely manner.

All lies.

Obama has TONS of items besides healthcare that he could use to foster a compromise, and stop the shutdown.

But he won't use them. Because he can't stop spending, he can't stop trying to make the upper classes poorer, by "redistributing" their wealth. He can't stop growing the Federal gov't.

And he doesn't HAVE to compromise. All he has to do is convince you that the entire shutdown is being caused by those Republicans - so blame them.

Eventually, those "hostage taking" Republicans, will have to give up, Obama wins, and the Democrats get to keep spending us into oblivion. Businesses and jobs are being lost here, but the Democrats love the poor - so they make more.


Benjamin Franklin said it much better:

When the people find that they can vote themselves money, that will herald the end of the republic.


And a couple favorites:

Where liberty dwells, there is my country.

God grant that not only the love of liberty but a thorough knowledge of the rights of man may pervade all the nations of the earth, so that a philosopher may set his foot anywhere on its surface and say: This is my country.

[glatt]

Thanks to the shutdown, the NIH stopped accepting new patients this week in their new drug trials, including children with cancer.

Good job, tea party.

[Adak]

Originally Posted by glatt

Thanks to the shutdown, the NIH stopped accepting new patients this week in their new drug trials, including children with cancer.

Good job, tea party.

Oh Yes! Glatt, what are you thinking here? That's why Obama decided to close the White House for tours to the public, earlier.

That's why the National Parks and monuments are shut down, now.

That why the National Zoo shut off the live cam on the Panda cubs. How much money does it take to keep a live cam turned on? Nothing.

The Democrats idea here is to make you suffer. If they just make you discomforted enough, you will give up a bit more of your liberty, to the Feds. And they don't have to listen to you bitching about it, anymore - because they can make you suffer whenever they want to.

If those pesky Republicans will just get cowed down, life could be SO MUCH easier.

A representative gov't, a gov't that has to respect our stated liberties in the documents that gave our country birth. Who needs that?

The House has tried several times to meet with the Senate and find a compromise to their differences.

Harry Reed (Senate Majority Leader), flatly refuses to any such meeting, and has advised the President to avoid attending such a meeting, as well.

They have to make us suffer, they have to beat down the Republicans, or they can't take away our liberties.

[infinite monkey]

I wish they could shut YOU down. Or even up.

[Jesus]

Originally Posted by Adak

Oh Yes! Glatt, what are you thinking here? That's why Obama decided to close the White House for tours to the public, earlier.

That's why the National Parks and monuments are shut down, now.

That why the National Zoo shut off the live cam on the Panda cubs. How much money does it take to keep a live cam turned on? Nothing.

The Democrats idea here is to make you suffer. If they just make you discomforted enough, you will give up a bit more of your liberty, to the Feds. And they don't have to listen to you bitching about it, anymore - because they can make you suffer whenever they want to.

If those pesky Republicans will just get cowed down, life could be SO MUCH easier.

A representative gov't, a gov't that has to respect our stated liberties in the documents that gave our country birth. Who needs that?

The House has tried several times to meet with the Senate and find a compromise to their differences.

Harry Reed (Senate Majority Leader), flatly refuses to any such meeting, and has advised the President to avoid attending such a meeting, as well.

They have to make us suffer, they have to beat down the Republicans, or they can't take away our liberties.

You actually have that the wrong way round. The Dems have reached out 16/17 times to go to conference in the past 6 months over the budget. Each time the tealiban wing of the party refused to allow any negotiation because it's all or nothing with them, and each fight is yet another conservative purity test.

Not really sure how you can accuse the dems of wanting to take your liberties. Remind me again which president introduced the patriot act?

I'm not sure whether you actually believe this nonsense or whether you're just entrenched in your political idealogies, and spend too much time in front of Faux noise.

[DanaC]

'tealiban' Ha! Haven't come across that one before.

Welcome to the Cellar, Jesus!

[Jesus]

Originally Posted by DanaC

'tealiban' Ha! Haven't come across that one before.

Welcome to the Cellar, Jesus!

Hi, and thank you for your very kind welcome.

[DanaC]

Continuing in my long tradition of getting most of my US news from the Daily Show, I just saw heard the most outrageous quote from a Republican congressman about the reasons for the shutdown:

Todd Rokita (R. Indiana): 'We just want to help the American people get by and through what is one of the most insidious laws ever created by man; and that is Obamacare'.

Wow. That is some seriously unbalanced perspective.