The ethics of citizenship

[Happy Monkey]

Originally posted by jaguar
For someone with 20 years with a personal secretary ...Odd individual to be arguing for social welfare.

Why? Only people who need it should support it? I, for one, support many programs that don't benefit me directly, simply because I think they do good work.

[wolf]

Originally posted by jaguar
For someone with 20 years with a personal secretary ...Odd individual to be arguing for social welfare.

There's still a lot of former hippies here in the US who cling to their socialist love everybody except conservatives believes.

They feel really, really bad about being successful, continue to donate to social causes and charities, support Greenpeace, boycott Tuna, and shop at Whole Foods.

They're mostly harmless.

[Happy Monkey]

...and I'm no former hippie.

Though I do have long hair. But that's CS-related, not drug-related.

To Sycamore: “Would you mind providing a source for this information you're posting?”
Certainly, pick up the phone and call your local social security office and ask them what the benefit amount for SSI is. Lady Sycamore obviously receives SSDI which is the program for those who have accumulated enough paid in quarters of work history to qualify. There is a big difference between SSI and SSDI. Often people who become disabled and continue to try to work, but fail, loose their SSDI eligibility, because by time they admit defeat and go down to social security, their paid in quarters are no longer recent enough. These people are then thrown back on the lower paying SSI program and are in effect penalized for not jumping onto disability right away. I am most sorry to hear of Lady S.’s plight. In cases as extreme as hers, the government will sometimes expedite its decision-making process, but not always. Many die while waiting for SSI/SSDI.

[OnyxCougar]

And still no response to my questions. Interesting.

Originally posted by OnyxCougar
I would like to know what all this rant is good for?

What are YOU, Marichiko, doing to change that?

Don't tell me what "Americans" are doing.

What are YOU doing to change it?

Exactamundo, Mr. (or Ms.) OnyxCougar! That was the entire point of my original post, now wasn't it? Instead of getting input on how a citizen might effect change, what I have mostly recieved is arguments that everything is wonderful here in paradise and there's no need to change ANYTHING. You are exactly correct. All this rant is good for absolutely nothing. You all have shown me how NOT to approach the question of effecting change, if that is any consolation to you. And frankly, since you seem so indifferent what do you care what I do?

[lumberjim]

Originally posted by marichiko
They say evil happens when good people turn their backs and do nothing. I see the US as a country where the citizens are caught between complacency on the one hand and dispair on the other. Abuses of the people by the system are widespread and flagrant. Yet when one speaks out, one is generally regarded as some extremist whacko or told that "you can't fight city hall." Perhaps its true that we have lost so many freedoms that an individual no longer CAN fight city hall. What is the ethical response in the face of such indifference on the part of the government and its people? Is it still possible to effect a change for the good in this country? Should one even try?

On a large scale political change type of level, I'd say no, ONE person cannot make a difference. However, if one person is dedicated enough, and has the means, they can be instrumental in motivating other people that share their beliefs. And that GROUP of people CAN. Perhaps these other people would have never acted if not polarized by that one charismatic motivator, perhaps they would. If you are asking what YOU can do about the problems that you see, you must first ask yourself what you are willing to sacrifice to affect the change you see to be needed. You can do as little as voting one way or another, but in this largely bipartisan system, you wind up choosing the lesser of two evils. OR you can write your congressman daily, organize rallies, march on the whitehouse or publish an underground newspaper espousing your beliefs.


what changes did you have in mind?

[OnyxCougar]

Please see this thread where I asked the same question.

And you still haven't answered my second set of questions:


I would also like to know (since I haven't received an answer to the previous questions posited to Michiko) if Michiko has actually experienced being homeless and in the dire straits presented in the commentary?

Or is that a set of responses gleaned solely from internet sources, compressed together to form a "worst case scenario" implication?

Originally posted by OnyxCougar
Please see this thread where I asked the same question.

And you still haven't answered my second set of questions:


I would also like to know (since I haven't received an answer to the previous questions posited to Michiko) if Michiko has actually experienced being homeless and in the dire straits presented in the commentary?

Or is that a set of responses gleaned solely from internet sources, compressed together to form a "worst case scenario" implication?

I wrote from personal experience. I was a member of the middle class until I fell through the "looking glass" and got to experience life as a member of "the have nots." I had a well paid professional job that was the pinnacle of a 20 year career when I moved into a house that had a faulty furnace. For 3 years I was exposed to ever increasing levels of a deadly poison gas - carbon monoxide. By the end, I was ill all the time, unable to think clearly, and completely incapable of understanding what had happened to me. My doctors could not figure it out and I got one mis-diagnosis after the other. Fortunately, a friend finally suspected something was going on with the air in my house and called public utilities. When they arrived, they measured the CO levels in my home and told me that I should have died.

By time the problem was discovered I had been unable to work for over a year and had lost my private medical and disability insurance. I thought the problems would resolve themselves once I was breathing clean air again, but my recovery was slow and arduous. I refused to apply for disability at first because I had always earned my own way, stood on my own two feet, but at last I had to accept defeat and go down and apply because I had no other way of obtaining medical assistance. It took 4 years to get approved. During this whole process I lost everything I had - my savings, everything - and ended up homeless for 3 months.

I am now better than I was but you can still see the effects of what happened to me in my spelling mistakes, my confusion regarding who posted what, and my lengthy posts.

[elSicomoro]

Originally posted by marichiko
Certainly, pick up the phone and call your local social security office and ask them what the benefit amount for SSI is.

Cute...you make a statement of fact with nothing to back it up, and when challenged, you expect me to go run and find it. I'm going to chalk it up to the fact that you're a newbie, for now.

In addition...

Originally posted by marichiko earlier in the day
At the end, do you know what the big payoff is for an individual disabled and unable to work?

No, of course not, because you with your intellectually curious mind, never bothered to find out. $560.00 a month. That's it plus about $50.00 in food stamps. That's what we expect our disabled citizens to live on.

You failed to specify which program you were referring to or whether you were talking about the minimum overall.

Lady Sycamore obviously receives SSDI which is the program for those who have accumulated enough paid in quarters of work history to qualify.

Of course it's obvious...b/c I told you what she was receiving.

Originally posted by sycamore


Of course it's obvious...b/c I told you what she was receiving.

I don't recall you specifically stating that she gets SSDI. At any rate since you have been through the mill with social security, I assumed you'd have the local number somewhere close by. I'm sick with a bad cold and have to get ready to go on a 900 mile round trip tomorrow and, frankly, I don't feel like tracking down the 800 number for someone who is probably not going to call it, anyhow. If you've been through the drill, you should know this stuff, I'm surprised you don't know the difference between SSI and SSDI. At any rate, I'm glad for you and Lady S. that you have had such a positive experience with the folks at social security. God bless you all.

My original purpose was not to debate social/povery issues but to ask for input on what an ethical individual should do in the face of a percieved government wrong. The response from this board has been almost unanimous in the assertation that everything is wonderful here in the US and I'm just some sort of quaint hippie leftover that I would dare question anything.

Well, its your country as well as mine and if you are all happy with the current state of the nation, far be it from me to argue the point further. As an earlier poster mentioned, its just a big waste of time, and I have better ways of spending my time then trying to convince a group who is not interested in what I have to say. It's been entertaining y'all. You can now go back to your self congratulatory business as usual without further comment from me.

[smoothmoniker]

I'm pretty sure that brings us around to my original point.

People who think things ought to change get pissy when it turns out a lot of people disagree with them

-sm

[lumberjim]

Originally posted by marichiko
I don't recall you specifically stating that she gets SSDI. At any rate since you have been through the mill with social security, I assumed you'd have the local number somewhere close by. I'm sick with a bad cold and have to get ready to go on a 900 mile round trip tomorrow and, frankly, I don't feel like tracking down the 800 number for someone who is probably not going to call it, anyhow. If you've been through the drill, you should know this stuff, I'm surprised you don't know the difference between SSI and SSDI. At any rate, I'm glad for you and Lady S. that you have had such a positive experience with the folks at social security. God bless you all.

My original purpose was not to debate social/povery issues but to ask for input on what an ethical individual should do in the face of a percieved government wrong. The response from this board has been almost unanimous in the assertation that everything is wonderful here in the US and I'm just some sort of quaint hippie leftover that I would dare question anything.

Well, its your country as well as mine and if you are all happy with the current state of the nation, far be it from me to argue the point further. As an earlier poster mentioned, its just a big waste of time, and I have better ways of spending my time then trying to convince a group who is not interested in what I have to say. It's been entertaining y'all. You can now go back to your self congratulatory business as usual without further comment from me.

crybaby.

I responded to your initial question, and you ignored that. You must be happy with the current state of your superiority o'er all of our pedantic self congratulatoryness, and prefer to act all put out and misunderstood...... Oh, boo hoo, I lost my fortune because I was too stupid to put a CO monitor in my house, Wahhh, I'm sick and I have to travel, My pussy hurts, you guys are mean, wahhh.

have a nice life. Don't let the door hit you on the ass as you leave. buh-bye. ba!.......bye! ............alrighty then, bye bye now.

[Troubleshooter]

Originally posted by marichiko
My original purpose was not to debate social/povery issues but to ask for input on what an ethical individual should do in the face of a percieved government wrong.

I answered and received nothing for it. I'm so not feeling the love.

So I'll answer again on a fuller and more personal note.

I'm currently in school for Sciology and Criminal Justice. The Sociology because it is the study of people and groups and their dynamics. The Criminal Justice is because of its focus on social rules and deviance and because it'll probably help me get a job when I'm done with school. I'm going to pursue a Master's Degree in Sociology and possibly Philosphy as well.

I'm going to learn to communicate to people how important thinking, communicating and cooperating are and how to do them.

[ladysycamore]

Originally posted by marichiko
To Sycamore: “Would you mind providing a source for this information you're posting?”
Certainly, pick up the phone and call your local social security office and ask them what the benefit amount for SSI is. Lady Sycamore obviously receives SSDI which is the program for those who have accumulated enough paid in quarters of work history to qualify. There is a big difference between SSI and SSDI. Often people who become disabled and continue to try to work, but fail, loose their SSDI eligibility, because by time they admit defeat and go down to social security, their paid in quarters are no longer recent enough. These people are then thrown back on the lower paying SSI program and are in effect penalized for not jumping onto disability right away. I am most sorry to hear of Lady S.’s plight. In cases as extreme as hers, the government will sometimes expedite its decision-making process, but not always. Many die while waiting for SSI/SSDI.

Sadly, that is very true. I was once on a newsgroup for people who were on or trying to get SSI/SSDI, and the stories they told were horrible! The hoops they had to jump through just to get a little money (and some people, IMO, were in worse situations than I could ever imagine. At least I can still walk and be mobile...some were confined to wheelchairs, walkers, crippled, etc.).

I'm not sure exactly what the answer is to all of this. It'll take not just one person, but a multitude of change to make a difference, IMO.