Measles 2015

[Lamplighter]

Originally Posted by Clodfobble

<snip>
...(which is to say, medical surveys which are about 8 years behind the curve
due to the time it takes to first diagnose a cohort of children born in a certain year,
and then collect and analyze that data) says that 1 in 36 boys has autism.
That's almost 3% of the male population right there, ...
<snip>

@Clod: I am truly not trying to pick a fight with you about your children and
how they are responding to the diet you are using to improve their health.
I do believe parents know their children better than anyone else,
and physicians should (and do) pay attention to them.

I do just have trouble with the more recent statistics that are being advertised,
and used to justify the attacks by some on vaccination programs, etc.

If the definition of "autism spectrum disorder" is spread wide and thin enough,
we can have those numbers come up to 1 in 15, or to 1 in 5, or 1 in 3...
of all children meet the "current definition of ...".

I also have trouble with the Jenny McCarthy-type phenomenon in which
"This is what happened to my child, and it must be true for others..."
One case does not prove cause and effect, but it's very easy to believe,
especially when that person is popular or politically powerful to the public.

Likewise, some cases of "ASD" may or may not be an autoimmune disease,
and in some situations, a child with existing autoimmune disease
truly should not be given a vaccination. But that is a contradictory argument
to whether a given vaccine "caused" the autoimmune disease in an otherwise healthy child.

Even if the argument is against "live virus" vaccines, there is still the question as to the specific virus.
That is, by the time a child has reached one year of age, they have essentially been
exposed to viruses from other members of the family and the public.
And while parents may associate the on-set of a chronic illness with the vaccination,
it still is not necessarily a cause and effect.

While it is completely understandable for parents to search for someone or some thing
to blame for their child's disease, it is hard for me to be patient with the those
who condemn or accuse the world's public health community with foisting
vaccination programs onto the public just to protect reputations or incomes, or whatever.

.

[Griff]

Originally Posted by Lamplighter

Likewise, some cases of "ASD" may or may not be an autoimmune disease,
and in some situations, a child with existing autoimmune disease
truly should not be given a vaccination. But that is a contradictory argument
to whether a given vaccine "caused" the autoimmune disease in an otherwise healthy child.

I don't want to put words in her mouth but I believe Clod's current take on this is that Autism may be an autoimmune disease caused by other factors. The vaccinations could be the trigger for the immune response which exacerbates the symptoms but are not the cause of the autism.

[tw]

Originally Posted by DanaC

I have neither the time nor inclination to gather up evidence for a fairly broad point about the ways in which the scientific communities have helped to create a culture of suspicion or unease about medical testing and medical products.

With a previously missing detail, I am reading something completely different. Now you are saying the scientific community has not presented facts accurately.

What science has done is not the problem. But so many people need things presented in a politically correct manner. Wakefield lied. Then science did what science always does. It exposed his lies. But what does an adult child named Jenny McCarthy (and others) still do? Continue to promote lies exposed by science.

Being an enemy of mankind, scumbag bitch can only believe the first thing she is told. She is a child; she cannot admit the scam. A scam was not created by science. A scam created because so many children would promote harm by even hiding the science. Those others only do what business schools teach.

You should be attacking wacko extremists who openly encourage fraud such as ginko biloba. A fraud that exists because fraud is legal. They need not report what is being provided. Most ginko biloba only contains rice, beans, and pieces of house plants. Science did not create this fraud. Science exposed it. It exists due to contempt for science. Adults who corrupt - who claim the purpose of a business is only profits - create this problem. As if black tea is another miracle drug.

The science community is not guilty. Business school graduates run many drug companies. Wacko extremists in government now make it legal or acceptable to hide science facts even from doctors. And then to keep drug prices 40% higher - to further enrich those liars. Since that gets bigger campaign contributions. Government even protects a scam called ginko biloba.

Why did they blame Paterno for pedophilia? Investigation was by someone who previously destroyed data on Vioxx. Science proved Vioxx caused strokes and other problems. Was Frazer disbarred for legal misconduct (perverting the discovery process - hiding the science)? No. He was given the presidency of Merck - the drug company whose purpose is now profits - not better drugs. Then Frazer was the head investigator for Penn States BoDs ... who did no investigation and blamed Paterno. Had he used science principles, he would have never made such conclusions. But he gets promoted by deception, lies, and manipulating adults who are still children.

Science community did not lie. Management educated in corruption (what is taught to business school graduates) creates your problem. Why do you blame science for what is taught in business schools? They created a bogeyman so that you would not blame bean counter management. They have you blaming their bogeyman for corruption. They have successfully scammed you. Even your own citation does not blame science. It blames corruption that keeps doctors from learning the science.

The science is accurate and honest. But scumbags such as Jenny McCarthy, Frazer, Wakefield, and even Carly Fiorina successfully play you for a fool. They have you blaming innocent science and not corrupt business school graduates.

Meanwhile science says MMR does not create autism. Only lovers of the scumbags believe lies created in the tradition of business school graduates: purpose of a business is only your profits - others be damned. Making the ginko biloba scam even legal. Even Wakefield lied to do what is taught in business schools - profits - the product and public be damned. Why do you blame science for what is taught in business schools?

[tw]

Originally Posted by Griff

I don't want to put words in her mouth but I believe Clod's current take on this is that Autism may be an autoimmune disease caused by other factors.

Had the 'always required reasons why' been provided, then that 'take on this' would have been obvious. Unfortunately, only a soundbyte was posted. So your 'take' can only be speculation.

[glatt]

Originally Posted by tw

Unfortunately, only a soundbyte was posted. So your 'take' can only be speculation.

She's been posting about this for 8+ years. That's how Griff was able to get so much out of that "soundbyte." If you joined the community here, you might understand better what people are talking about.

[glatt]

Originally Posted by glatt

She's been posting about this for 8+ years. That's how Griff was able to get so much out of that "soundbyte." If you joined the community here, you might understand better what people are talking about.

It's been pointed out to me that my comments might be too harsh coming from a mod. I want to be clear that I'm not speaking as a mod here. I just wanted to point out the difference between why tw didn't understand a statement, and Griff did. Griff has been paying attention to the people behind the posts, and tw appears to just be debating words on a screen.

It's all good.

[xoxoxoBruce]

Originally Posted by glatt

It's been pointed out to me that my comments might be too harsh coming from a mod. I want to be clear that I'm not speaking as a mod here.

Yo, get off that high horse, being a moderator is being a flunky, you work for us, minion.
What you post doesn't carry any more weight than anyone else's opinion. It's only things you DO in administrative duties, that means more. Other than that, you're just another member shooting from the hip like the rest of us.