The Gender Equality Checkpoint

[it]

Originally Posted by DanaC

Chances are, if studies over the last quarter of a century are in any way indicative of real patterns of behaviour, that the percentage of women who have experienced such situations is likely to be much higher than the percentage of men

Did you miss my first entry in this thread?

Originally Posted by traceur

Not sure if this is a good place to put this but...

A 2010 checkpoint: "To be made to penetrate" - Female on male forced sexual intercourse - was counted in the US for the first time as a catagory of rape... Within the confines of a study, not legislation, in which it is still not quite considered rape yet. But it's progress.

TLR men get raped as much as women do, by both men and women, they just don't know that it's rape, but still express the same post-traumatic symptoms (Although she annoyingly doesn't provide a citation to the last bit). If you examine it more closely, you'll notice that while males are slightly more likely to be the offenders, as with almost every other crime, the ratio of female to male offenders is actually more leveled then a lot of other crimes. Relatively to the world of criminal behavior, rape would be one of the least reasonable crimes to attribute to males only.

I would not be shocked if there are women here who have raped and have never stopped to consider it rape, and society gives them absolutely no reason to think otherwise, in fact it justifies their actions - since supposedly men always want sex. Which brings me to the next bit...

Originally Posted by DanaC

For a few years - a very fucking few years - we've begun to have a conversation about consent.

As of the 31st of august 2015, rape by women is still not legally considered rape. You are complaining that the legal definition of rape by males is too narrow, when the legal definition of rape by females is non existent and offers little to no legal protection at all.

If oranges are legal protection from non-consensual sex, you are complaining that your gender is at a special disadvantage and the victim of not having enough oranges and only getting some of their oranges pretty recently, when in fact your gender's basket has almost all of them while the other gender has a basket with only one orange (Sexual assault by other males), which is actually more recent.

Do you understand what a limited perspective that stance requires? "I don't have as many oranges as I could, this isn't fair", while you are virtually the only one who has them in the first place. This is the complete blind fold to male victims, and the perfect demonstration of how the school of thought views the well being of one gender is a lot more important then the other, leaving the equality of the dictionary definition as nothing but lip-service.

Originally Posted by DanaC

We teach our children not to bully. We teach them not to hit those who are weaker than them. We teach them all sorts of things about being a good human being. Why not this?

Again, this is far from the same thing as "teaching them not too rape":

Originally Posted by traceur

An exceptionally traumatic experience people shouldn't inflict on other people.

But if you want to convey that as the entire meaning of the letter, then I call bullshit. That's like saying that me teaching my son to be honest with people is the same thing as carefully explaining to him how the poor goys grow up in a culture lacking financial scrutiny and it's our responsibility as Jews to make sure we do not accidentally scam anyone. <- One of those is clearly loaded with a lot more meaning then the other.

Do you really not see the difference?

[DanaC]

Originally Posted by traceur

As of the 31st of august 2015, rape by women is still not legally considered rape. You are complaining that the legal definition of rape by males is too narrow, when the legal definition of rape by females is non existent and offers little to no legal protection at all.

Not so. I am complaining that our definition of rape is too narrow and that consent is an issue that needs to be discussed. I also, as it happens, think that the lack of recognition, in law and in society, of rape against male victims and rape by female perpetrators (as indeed with domestic abuse) is appalling and in urgent need of redress.

I must admit, those stats are new to me. I was always under the impression that number of male victims of rape and sexual assault were significantly lower than that of female victims - still far too many of them, and probably more than the figures would be able to reflect. I also was under the impression that male victims of rape were more likely to have been raped by male perpetrators.

I'd need to take a closer look at the article. I'm mildly suspicious - then again, I am mildly suspicious of the figures from the end of the extreme that make it seem like every other woman has been assaulted. This despite the fact that a majority of the women I know in my life have experienced sexual assault of some kind.

[it]

Originally Posted by DanaC

I'd need to take a closer look at the article. I'm mildly suspicious - then again, I am mildly suspicious of the figures from the end of the extreme that make it seem like every other woman has been assaulted. This despite the fact that a majority of the women I know in my life have experienced sexual assault of some kind.

It comes down to the same problem of determining whether the surveyed were honest and whether there was some selection bias.

There is a definite need for peer review, which we have for sexual assault by males on females and some by male on male but very little in female on male and none when it comes to female on female (And I know victims of this personally, so it's definitely there). Specifically peer review that uses the same definitions reliant on non-consent and asks about the acts themselves.

I also think we'd get better results and less of a selection bias if it was part of a larger study, perhaps including the questions in a survey about crime or heath or dating culture, and not with taglines like "National Intimate Partner and Sexual Violence Survey ".

[xoxoxoBruce]

Equality?