Grenfell Blaze

[DanaC]

Originally Posted by tw

Shocking are known facts. That building was not required to have sprinklers. Compare the building to firemen's water streams.

Philadelphia has a similar problem in a 30 some story building adjacent to City Hall. Due to no sprinklers, that fire simply marched up the floors. Three firemen died in that one. One watchman almost died when he took the elevator up to discover why a fire alarm (that he kept resetting) was repeatedly going off.

To fight that fire, firemen actually put hoses into windows of adjacent buildings to get water onto fire.

One difference. The Philadelphia building was built by domestics for domestics. That London building was built by domestics knowing it would also house immigrants. A comment only necessary due to blunt contempt one has for immigrants.

It's not that they are immigrants it is that they are poor. Their concerns have been ignored. The decisions about how to renovate the buildings were not taken by wicked evil people - they were taken by unaccountable quangos who complied with the minimum required to pass regulation. So - they used the cheaper of the two available cladding materials - because the regulations have not been updated in the light of other similar tragedies in other countries and one in London.

This is social housing - owned and managed by a complicated network of interlocking organisations. This was part of the whole shift from councils owning their own social housing to councils having some over-arching responsibility for the housing waiting lists and housing strategy, but without owning the housing stock and only having a small voice on the boards of the not for profit management companies set up to deal with social housing.

The sprinklers are only required for new buildings - there is no legal requirement to install them in the older blocks that never had them.

But I think it's pretty likely, that in the mansion blocks, and in the council housing blocks that got sold off to private ownership and rocketed up in value so that they now house the Kensington elite - they'll have had sprinklers fitted. And new cladding was probably the much more fire resistant type.

[xoxoxoBruce]

Never heard the word quangos, but sounds like our authorities, port authority, turnpike authority, water authority, etc, bastards all.

[tw]

Originally Posted by DanaC

It's not that they are immigrants it is that they are poor. Their concerns have been ignored. .

Exactly. But extremist among use will take any opportunity to promote hate - especially of immigrants. It is a mantra for of right wing wacko extremists.

Had extremist been logical (like an adult), then missing sprinklers were the first thing mentioned. Why did the moderate later discuss what they should have discussed in their very first post? Another serious problem that was less obvious - a highly flammable insulation material behind an aluminum based facade. This problem apparently exists in hundreds of high rise blocks even in London - for decades. But extremists need to blame immigrants - not the most evil domestic.

No requirement exists to make 1970 buildings safe. But that same biulding later installed gas mains ... in the one and only fire escape stairway. Please explain why that installation is acceptable ... but sprinklers are not? One delay that firemen had sometime between !am and 2am - a broken gas main in that only fire escape stairway.

This is an accident for the same reason that seven Challenger Astronauts were murdered.

This building was suppose to be tenant owned management. Apparently business school concepts took hold. Accurate complaints - well based in facts - 18 month earlier - were ignored. Management finally removed mattresses and other debris from the stairway - the only stairway to escape from a fire - after long and contentious arguments from the tenant association.

Is that a management that works for tenants? Or one only interested in profits? Another stab directly into the eyes of the extremists among us. Meanwhile President of the tenant association move out less than a year ago - due to obvious safety concerns ignored by property management.

Surprise here is how flammable that cladding was. This problem has been seen observed in London in many fires including one major one 2009. UK's fire protection board kept saying how dangerous this cladding is. But business school graduates responded by saying it would make many people homeless (see articles in the Guardian).

What made this fire so deadly? No sprinklers. No central alarm system. And 999 operators who could not believe defects in that building were that massive - therefore told so many to remain in their flats. Those 999 operators were recommending correctly - because every building should never have been that defective. A tribute to so many who foolishly believe profits - not the building - are relevant.

Immigrants are only relevant to many who will take any opportunity to promote Donald Trump hate.

Did anyone see the obvious? 85% of all problems are directly traceable to top management. How many will be convicted of murder in the third degree?