Do You Own a Gun?

[piercehawkeye45]

Originally Posted by HLJ

Yes. Red Lakes, but no one heard about it because it was an Indian Reservation.

I was talking about the University of Minnesota. Sorry for the confusion.

[BigV]

Originally Posted by Urbane Guerrilla

Hunting preserves for crazies is hardly hyperbole -- especially not when it's happened, and how many times?

"Hunting preserves for crazies is hardly hyperbole" :shakes head:

Yes, it is hyperbole. Whether you are ignorant of the definition of the word or simply misusing it, your position "The problem with the kind of strict gun control you find on college campuses is that it creates a hunting preserve for any crazy willing to defy the gun control." is wrong.

hy·per·bo·le (hī-pûr'bə-lē) pronunciation
n.

A figure of speech in which exaggeration is used for emphasis or effect, as in I could sleep for a year or This book weighs a ton.

[Latin hyperbolē, from Greek huperbolē, excess, from huperballein, to exceed : huper, beyond; see hyper– + ballein, to throw.]

***

hunt·ing (hŭn'tĭng) pronunciation
n.

1. The activity or sport of pursuing game.
2. The act of conducting a search for something: house hunting.
3. Electronics. The periodic variation in speed of a synchronous motor with respect to the current.

***

pre·serve (prĭ-zûrv') pronunciation

v., -served, -serv·ing, -serves.

v.tr.

1. To maintain in safety from injury, peril, or harm; protect.
2. To keep in perfect or unaltered condition; maintain unchanged.
3. To keep or maintain intact: tried to preserve family harmony. See synonyms at defend.
4. To prepare (food) for future use, as by canning or salting.
5. To prevent (organic bodies) from decaying or spoiling.
6. To keep or protect (game or fish) for one's private hunting or fishing.

v.intr.

1. To treat fruit or other foods so as to prevent decay.
2. To maintain a private area stocked with game or fish.

n.

1. Something that acts to preserve; a preservative.
2. Fruit cooked with sugar to protect against decay or fermentation. Often used in the plural.
3. An area maintained for the protection of wildlife or natural resources.
4. Something considered as being the exclusive province of certain persons: Ancient Greek is the preserve of scholars.

[Middle English preserven, from Old French preserver, from Medieval Latin praeservāre, from Late Latin, to observe beforehand : Latin prae-, pre- + Latin servāre, to guard, preserve.]

noun

Public land kept for a special purpose: reservation, reserve. See territory.

***

Campuses that don't permit guns are not hunting preserves. For crazies or anyone else. They're schools. You're obviously trying to affect a specific outcome--to permit guns on schoolgrounds; you say as much. Fine. That's your point, ok. But to try to justify it this way is wrong. It's a lie. I don't know or care if your thinking is weak, lazy or poor, the result is the same, it is wrong. I will give you loud, though. And persistent. Your logic is, to be generous, flawed. This because of that. It's just not so. You, personally, may be deluded in this way. But that doesn't make it so. As Sen Patrick Moynihan astutely observed, "You are entitled to your opinion, but you’re not entitled to your own facts."

Originally Posted by Urbane Guerrilla

Your manner of thinking, V, will help you die very quickly, helplessly, and hopelessly should you ever be so unfortunate as to be caught up in something like this.

My way of thinking, on the other hand, offers you a hope of survival. That's why I'm the good guy.

And if you're not stupid, why aren't you talking smarter? Stupid's a good way to go to your death, but is it a good life? It's likely to mean a short one.

You know approximately jack shit about my manner of thinking, and it shows. Do not pretend to know what I think, and do not pretend to speak for me. Your standard U R STOOPID ad hominem attacks show the weakness of your arguments. It's all you've got, and it's pretty weak. As to the quality and length of my life, you know nothing. I do not live in fear, jumping at shadows, even if you do.

Originally Posted by Urbane Guerrilla

What I tell you is still right, for all that you don't want to hear it ever. Your post (#314) is the equivalent of shoving a finger into each ear until the tips meet and chanting "La la la" at the top of your lungs. Pro-gun, pro-self-defense viewpoints apparently reduce you to an extreme degree of childishness, which is both immoral and grotesque.

Don't be immoral and grotesque.

They say beauty is in the eye of the beholder. I cannot control what you see or think, nor do I wish to. I am neither immoral nor grotesque, but if that is what you see, perhaps that, too, is in the eye of the beholder. Of all the people I know, only you hold such an opinion, and you are in no position to judge me.

Originally Posted by Urbane Guerrilla

The gun controllers support not peace, though they promise it, nor freedom, though they promise that also. Instead, their actions perversely open the way to extra crime, episodes of genocide, and a free path to oppressive government. It's not even control: it's banning, and it buys mass abuse. Is that smart?

All these things come to pass when the people are stupid, or unduly cowed. That is why I reject gun control and <s>gun controllers</s> gun banners. [I wish this board supported the strikeout BBcode -- and ASCII coding of foreign characters with diacriticals.]

:sigh:

I will say this: despite your faulty reasoning, the desire to own a gun never grips me more strongly than when I'm reading your posts.

[cowhead]

urbane g. I have to say you are wrong. then again... in the hands of the wrong people, yes. those are outcomes. but the bulk of gun owning america are not those people.

Though I am in a rural area and we need guns as tools... many say, "fine" show that you need it". No, why I want a gun is none of your damn business.
Again, don't like em', don't buy em'.
Freedom is not for everyone, it means being around free people. Some can't handle that.
If you are one of them, move.

[Urbane Guerrilla]

It's not a hyperbolic rhetorical construction when murders of this kind have happened and happened repeatedly. I've already said that clearly enough for someone thinking clearly to have gotten it. You aren't getting it, V.

Your attempt to declare my logic flawed does not make it so. It does demonstrate pretty murky thinking on your part, though. Avoid being blinded by your own invincible ego, or other less than rational patterns of thought: remember how badly Spexxvet came off in a contest like this one.

Once again, for (or to isolate) those who avoid understanding: if you're so very intelligent, why aren't you talking smarter? Why are you not studying the matter? Afraid of what you'll find in your own soul? I do not fear my subconscious, I'll tell you that much. People with antigun views are very much afraid of what they might do if they permitted themselves arms. If they repress this sufficiently, they have a great deal of trouble understanding it. See "Ragers Against Self-Defense" on JPFO's website for an introduction. (It's a remarkably complete explanation of Spexxvet's demonstrated state of mind wrt private armaments -- he went right down the list.)

Making it easier for criminals and crazies to go a-hunting is not the smart way to do things. The smart way is to make it harder, and strict gun control never makes it harder.

As for knowing your way of thinking, there's only one way that I can't "know approximately jack shit" about it: that's if you never post. I read your posts. I understand the thoughts you write down. I think they are ill founded, and you're going to hear about it, so don't descend into bitching.

My own facts? What nonsense is this? Simply because you won't cure your own ignorance -- which is what I did, and the material I've studied is available also to you -- does not mean I'm wrong. To insist that your ignorance is somehow superior to my study, which is in effect your whole attitude here, is mere perversity. I'm just not stupid enough to insist on believing other than the real, see? There's still plenty of room over here on the side of the angels.

You are in a most regrettable hurry to mistake a will to prevail even under the worst of possibilities with a fearful jumping at shadows. This is of course a very foolish way of looking at it, and one that the sensible man does not accept. It's a martial-arts viewpoint that does not increase paranoia -- quite the contrary. You'd know that had you ever taken any. If you are currently taking something and doubt my words, ask your sensei.

Bloody right I'm judging you -- on the basis of your posts and on your demonstrated thought. I am in the same position to judge you as you are to judge me, on the identical grounds, and my judgemental position is excellent: it is because I too am a moral being. You've got no call to complain -- if you're a moral being. Yet, do I detect a note of complaint?

That you experience at least occasional desire to own a gun is commendable, without qualification. The best people to own guns are the ones with the least desire to slay folks with them. That you do it from mistaking me for some sort of enemy, well, that's unfortunate, but I don't see what I can do to fix it. The people who are most hoplophobic also tend to misidentify potential threats or enemies -- another not-smart behavior. They cannot or will not tell the sheepdogs from the wolves. This incapacity is why I can tell they're not very bright.

Cowhead: just what the hell do you know about it? I challenge you. Back it up or withdraw it.

[Urbane Guerrilla]

Meanwhile, for a true understanding of arms:

Halbrook, Stephen P.: That Every Man Be Armed: the Evolution of a Constitutional Right

Lott, John: More Guns Less Crime

Tonso, William R., ed.: The Gun Culture and its Enemies

Kates, Don B.: [practically anything -- this Constitutional lawyer is well grounded]

Schulman, J. Neil: Stopping Power, secondarily Self Control, Not Gun Control

Simkin, Zelman, and Rice: Lethal Laws: "Gun Control" is the Gateway to Genocide

These are just some of what I have at my fingertips. BigV cannot muster the same degree of scholarship.

[BigV]

Originally Posted by Urbane Guerrilla

It's not a hyperbolic rhetorical construction when murders of this kind have happened and happened repeatedly. [ad hominem]I've already said that clearly enough for someone thinking clearly to have gotten it. You aren't getting it, V.[/ad hominem]

Your attempt to declare my logic flawed does not make it so. [ad hominem]It does demonstrate pretty murky thinking on your part, though. Avoid being blinded by your own invincible ego, or other less than rational patterns of thought: remember how badly Spexxvet came off in a contest like this one.[/ad hominem]

Once again, for (or to isolate) those who avoid understanding: [ad hominem]if you're so very intelligent, why aren't you talking smarter?[/ad hominem] Why are you not studying the matter? Afraid of what you'll find in your own soul? I do not fear my subconscious, I'll tell you that much. People with antigun views are very much afraid of what they might do if they permitted themselves arms. If they repress this sufficiently, they have a great deal of trouble understanding it. See "Ragers Against Self-Defense" on JPFO's website for an introduction. (It's a remarkably complete explanation of Spexxvet's demonstrated state of mind wrt private armaments -- he went right down the list.)

Making it easier for criminals and crazies to go a-hunting is not the smart way to do things. The smart way is to make it harder, and strict gun control never makes it harder.

As for knowing your way of thinking, there's only one way that I can't "know approximately jack shit" about it: that's if you never post. I read your posts. I understand the thoughts you write down. I think they are ill founded, and you're going to hear about it, [ad hominem]so don't descend into bitching.[/ad hominem]

My own facts? What nonsense is this? [ad hominem]Simply because you won't cure your own ignorance[/ad hominem] -- which is what I did, and the material I've studied is available also to you -- does not mean I'm wrong. [ad hominem]To insist that your ignorance is somehow superior to my study, which is in effect your whole attitude here, is mere perversity.[/ad hominem] I'm just not stupid enough to insist on believing other than the real, see? There's still plenty of room over here on the side of the angels.

You are in a most regrettable hurry to mistake a will to prevail even under the worst of possibilities with a fearful jumping at shadows. [ad hominem]This is of course a very foolish way of looking at it, and one that the sensible man does not accept.[/ad hominem] It's a martial-arts viewpoint that does not increase paranoia -- quite the contrary. You'd know that had you ever taken any. If you are currently taking something and doubt my words, ask your sensei.

Bloody right I'm judging you -- on the basis of your posts and on your demonstrated thought. I am in the same position to judge you as you are to judge me, on the identical grounds, and my judgemental position is excellent: it is because I too am a moral being. You've got no call to complain -- if you're a moral being. Yet, do I detect a note of complaint?

That you experience at least occasional desire to own a gun is commendable, without qualification. The best people to own guns are the ones with the least desire to slay folks with them. That you do it from mistaking me for some sort of enemy, well, that's unfortunate, but I don't see what I can do to fix it. The people who are most hoplophobic also tend to misidentify potential threats or enemies -- another not-smart behavior. They cannot or will not tell the sheepdogs from the wolves. This incapacity is why I can tell they're not very bright.

Cowhead: just what the hell do you know about it? I challenge you. Back it up or withdraw it.

small words this time:

hyperbole: a exaggeration to make a point. "this book weighs a ton". your statement was an exaggeration to make a point.

hunting: the sport of pursuing game. like animals, for sport or food. people are not game. they're not being pursued for sport or game. it's called murder, something very different.

preserve: an area maintained for a special purpose. these areas are maintained for the special purpose of education. they're called schools.

you're wrong wrong wrong on all accounts. "your own facts" is what you're doing when you just making up definitions for words that for which everybody else already has well established definitions, very different definitions. what's more, you avoid the correct but less provocative less inflammatory more fantastic descriptions. you slipped in this recent post though when you correctly called it murder.

as for knowing my way of thinking, you're still at zero. you still understand nothing about it. your explanation that you "know" because you "understand" what I post falls short, particularly in the "understand" area. a good example of this is your lack of "understanding" the basic, common, accepted definitions of terms like "murder" "school" "hyperbole" "hunting preserve". your repeated misuse of public objectively verifiable concepts like these make me certain you don't understand something much more complex like someone's thinking. I reckon I could post the meaning of the universe in fifty words or less and you'd fail to understand it. [/ad hominem] it's the understanding you're failing.

I'll give you another free shot though. I strenuously object to lies like yours. I find them objectionable because of the great harm the inflict on the public discourse. This is not a case of calling a spade a spade, this is calling a spade a TERRORIST, a BOOGEYMAN, a ... HUNTER. this wild exaggeration inflames and distracts and perhaps that is your purpose. But it does nothing to help make things better. It helps solve nothing. It is wasteful destructive divisive and distracting. It is like dumping toxic waste on the public commons--hurtful to all and helpful to none. When I see it happening, I resist it. This is the evil I shall not let triumph by doing nothing.

judge away--I'll give them the same low credence I give your free ranging re-definitions of common english words. you call things names that they are not. you call me immoral and grotesque; I am not. you call schools hunting preserves for crazies; they are not. your credibility is approximately zero, and in perfect proportion to the value of your judgment.

[BigV]

As a separate post...

Please, Urbane Guerrilla, stop calling people stupid. Ok? As a favor to me, would you please?

Thanks in advance.

If I am in a building for the purpose of killing people and am the only armed individual, with victims trapped in classrooms... it is a game preserve.

I have hunted on game preserves, that describes them exactly. There is no difference.

If you just don't like the fact that we are talking about humans as the prey, that is something you are going to have to deal with on your own.

It is an accurate description of the situation.

[BigV]

bullshit.

[HungLikeJesus]

rkz, you have taken one aspect of the debate and stripped away the emotional rhetoric. I find it difficult to disagree with what you've said.

[Aliantha]

It would generally be understood that people go hunting for the thrill of it. That is to say, to test their skill and thier wits against that of the beast.

People who commit gun crime generally have different motivations than the simple thrill of it even if they're committing mass murder.

Schools are not hunting preserves.

[xoxoxoBruce]

Maybe not, but it sure makes a good spot to kill a bunch of people with little interference or much chance of anyone shooting back, for a period of time.

Hunting preserve may be hyperbole or even exaggeration, but not a lie.

Originally Posted by BigV

bullshit.

Oh, well of course, it all makes perfect sense now!

[Spexxvet]

Originally Posted by Urbane Guerrilla

....remember how badly Spexxvet came off in a contest like this one....

It's not suprising that you have this perception, since you are ignorant, close-minded, and advocate violence, you loser.

Originally Posted by Urbane Guerrilla

...(It's a remarkably complete explanation of Spexxvet's demonstrated state of mind wrt private armaments -- he went right down the list.)...

Shoot 'em, up, killer.

I truly hope that someone takes one of your handguns right out of your cowardly hands, butt fucks you in the mouth, and shoots you to death.