Hand wringing about Jill leaving. - Page 6

Flint · 05-08-2011, 01:00 PM

Proceed with whatever your point is.

Undertoad · 05-08-2011, 01:15 PM

There's a display mode for you (upper right, Display Modes, Threaded Mode), but it doesn't really work because Quick Reply doesn't count in Threading.

Massive alteration of vBulletin is not going to happen.

BigV · 05-08-2011, 01:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Undertoad

There's a display mode for you (upper right, Display Modes, Threaded Mode), but it doesn't really work because Quick Reply doesn't count in Threading.

Massive alteration of vBulletin is not going to happen.

accent on "wish"

I did not intentionally suggest a massive rewrite of vBulletin.

Nirvana · 05-08-2011, 01:17 PM

How do you know whether or not you want to see someone's comments or not, until you have seen them?

Doesn't the ignore feature take care of this problem?

Griff · 05-08-2011, 01:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nirvana

How do you know whether or not you want to see someone's comments or not, until you have seen them?

Doesn't the ignore feature take care of this problem?

That is where DanaC's yellow/red card theory could be more effective. The poster gets temporarily locked out of politics after so many fouls so the reader can be reasonably assured that there will be a discussion.

BigV · 05-08-2011, 01:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nirvana

How do you know whether or not you want to see someone's comments or not, until you have seen them?

Doesn't the ignore feature take care of this problem?

Hi Nirvana--

In my fantasy rewrite of vBulletin, I was thinking I could see the post to begin with. This is ... you got to start with it showing or not... I pick showing. I could see the post, and if it was crap, just collapse it so the visual flow of the conversation didn't include that one.

the Ignore feature as it is now works great, but for a given poster *everywhere* on the cellar. When I'm UP TO HERE!!!11 with a given poster, I put them on ignore and my blood pressure is reduced. This functionality doesn't apply the way I want it... I just want selective comments removed from the conversation, not whole dwellars.

Undertoad · 05-08-2011, 02:05 PM

There is in fact a "red card yellow card" system built in to vBulletin, and a user getting infractions can be automatically penalized into a different user group or banned entirely.

The problem is that such a system changes, and complicates, the dynamic of the forum.

Many forums offer reward systems, in the forum of up or down votes. People at such places are not honestly themselves, but are competing to win ups or downs. Circlejerks reinforce themselves with upvotes. Hive minds develop. Some are ostracized with downvotes.

Imagine the internal politics that could develop. Imagine a Cellar Red Card Bannination Crew, working in consort. We'd have discussions breaking down into which user got close to making a heretical statement, and what penance they should offer to make things right. It'd be uglier than it is now.

footfootfoot · 05-08-2011, 03:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Undertoad

There is in fact a "red card yellow card" system built in to vBulletin, and a user getting infractions can be automatically penalized into a different user group or banned entirely.

The problem is that such a system changes, and complicates, the dynamic of the forum.

Many forums offer reward systems, in the forum of up or down votes. People at such places are not honestly themselves, but are competing to win ups or downs. Circlejerks reinforce themselves with upvotes. Hive minds develop. Some are ostracized with downvotes.

Imagine the internal politics that could develop. Imagine a Cellar Red Card Bannination Crew, working in consort. We'd have discussions breaking down into which user got close to making a heretical statement, and what penance they should offer to make things right. It'd be uglier than it is now.

Good points. What if the call were only made by a mod?

BigV · 05-08-2011, 02:17 PM

How do you, UT, handle unwanted and irrelevant intrusions into your attention now, in real life?

Undertoad · 05-08-2011, 03:06 PM

Earplugs.

Undertoad · 05-08-2011, 04:10 PM

I don't think there are enough mods to manage it.

footfootfoot · 05-08-2011, 04:12 PM

hahahahaha. sad, but true. sad, but funny, and true.

Actually very funny

lookout123 · 05-08-2011, 10:49 PM

I don't think anything structural needs to change in the cellar. The beauty of the cellar is that it is a self policing community. I've been to other communities that are heavily moderated and regulated and they suck. Personally I don't like some of the changes I've seen in the culture of the cellar in the last few years. I have the ability to either whine about it (which I have), try to be a catalyst for what I'd like to see (I'm not so good at that), or leave (which I've done for months at a time). That's self regulation and it works. While I have zero respect for a couple of dwellars I dont' want some system in place where we vote their comments in or out of the threads. They're free to be assholes and I'm free to respond how I see fit.

For me I think the cellar is just a sympton of a much larger problem in our society. This is a reflection of discourse in the world now. Ideas are really not that important anymore except as a banner to wave pretentiously in support of our political/social identity. The right believes they are superior to the left because they're "more patriotic and american", "stand for values", and are obviously much more intelligent. The left believes they are superior to the right "because they care about the middle class", "believe in compassion", and are obviously much more intelligent.

It seems most people refuse to consider that two people can look at the exact same data and come to drastically different conclusions not because one is brilliant, kind, and pretty while the other is stupid, evil, and smelly. We have all experienced life differently and because of that have different priorities and different views of what the ideal society would be.

Of course those we have voted to rule our lives benefit by keeping us divided so they stir the pot with rhetoric to keep us battling right v left, rich v poor, black v white, red state v blue state. No one wins except the ruling class.

DanaC · 05-09-2011, 06:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lookout123

I don't think anything structural needs to change in the cellar. The beauty of the cellar is that it is a self policing community. I've been to other communities that are heavily moderated and regulated and they suck. Personally I don't like some of the changes I've seen in the culture of the cellar in the last few years. I have the ability to either whine about it (which I have), try to be a catalyst for what I'd like to see (I'm not so good at that), or leave (which I've done for months at a time). That's self regulation and it works. While I have zero respect for a couple of dwellars I dont' want some system in place where we vote their comments in or out of the threads. They're free to be assholes and I'm free to respond how I see fit.

For me I think the cellar is just a sympton of a much larger problem in our society. This is a reflection of discourse in the world now. Ideas are really not that important anymore except as a banner to wave pretentiously in support of our political/social identity. The right believes they are superior to the left because they're "more patriotic and american", "stand for values", and are obviously much more intelligent. The left believes they are superior to the right "because they care about the middle class", "believe in compassion", and are obviously much more intelligent.

It seems most people refuse to consider that two people can look at the exact same data and come to drastically different conclusions not because one is brilliant, kind, and pretty while the other is stupid, evil, and smelly. We have all experienced life differently and because of that have different priorities and different views of what the ideal society would be.

Of course those we have voted to rule our lives benefit by keeping us divided so they stir the pot with rhetoric to keep us battling right v left, rich v poor, black v white, red state v blue state. No one wins except the ruling class.

Goddamn but you're sexy when you're right :p

I agree with this. I don't particularly want to see increased moderation in the Cellar.

I do think it's useful now and then for us to air this stuff though. If for no other reason than it lets people who've perhaps been under the impression that we're all cool with the shitslinging know that actually they're not alone and the problem has a wider recognition.

Fair&Balanced · 05-08-2011, 11:09 PM

Lookout, sorry, but I disagree. I think that is an easy way out of addressing the problem.

My disagreement is the manner in which people "discuss" their differences.

I have had brief, but interesting discussions with Flint and Classicman in which we disagreed, but we were respectful.

That is not the case with one member here. One who, in my experience, is always the first to start with the name-calling (pussy, asshole, loser,...), who arrogantly refuses to provide facts to support his position when requested but instead demands that others prove him wrong and who broadly categorizes anything he doesnt agree with as biased or propaganda (including facts like text of laws).

If you think the discussions could be better, my suggestion is to start with the biggest deterrent.

I get that he is a "valued" member of the community. If the community wants to skirt around it and doesnt want to address, then so be it.

If that is the case, its no big deal. Those who want a more civil and respectful discussion of political issues will find it elsewhere.

added:
And, yes, I am guilty of responding in less than the most respectful manners at times, but I would urge you to look at the discussions in the totality.

05-08-2011, 01:00 PM	#1
Flint Snowflake Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Dystopia Posts: 13,136	Proceed with whatever your point is. __________________ **************** There's a level of facility that everyone needs to accomplish, and from there it's a matter of deciding for yourself how important ultra-facility is to your expression. ... I found, like Joseph Campbell said, if you just follow whatever gives you a little joy or excitement or awe, then you're on the right track. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Terry Bozzio**

05-08-2011, 01:17 PM	#4
Nirvana Back in 10 Join Date: Aug 2008 Posts: 3,684	How do you know whether or not you want to see someone's comments or not, until you have seen them? Doesn't the ignore feature take care of this problem? __________________ Speaking simply... do not confuse this with having a simple mind.

05-08-2011, 02:17 PM	#9
BigV Goon Squad Leader Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Seattle Posts: 27,063	How do you, UT, handle unwanted and irrelevant intrusions into your attention now, in real life? __________________ Be Just and Fear Not.

05-08-2011, 04:12 PM	#12
footfootfoot To shreds, you say? Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: in the house and on the street-how many, many feet we meet! Posts: 18,449	hahahahaha. sad, but true. sad, but funny, and true. Actually very funny __________________ The internet is a hateful stew of vomit you can never take completely seriously. - Her Fobs

05-08-2011, 10:49 PM	#13
lookout123 changed his status to single Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Right behind you. No, the other side. Posts: 10,308	I don't think anything structural needs to change in the cellar. The beauty of the cellar is that it is a self policing community. I've been to other communities that are heavily moderated and regulated and they suck. Personally I don't like some of the changes I've seen in the culture of the cellar in the last few years. I have the ability to either whine about it (which I have), try to be a catalyst for what I'd like to see (I'm not so good at that), or leave (which I've done for months at a time). That's self regulation and it works. While I have zero respect for a couple of dwellars I dont' want some system in place where we vote their comments in or out of the threads. They're free to be assholes and I'm free to respond how I see fit. For me I think the cellar is just a sympton of a much larger problem in our society. This is a reflection of discourse in the world now. Ideas are really not that important anymore except as a banner to wave pretentiously in support of our political/social identity. The right believes they are superior to the left because they're "more patriotic and american", "stand for values", and are obviously much more intelligent. The left believes they are superior to the right "because they care about the middle class", "believe in compassion", and are obviously much more intelligent. It seems most people refuse to consider that two people can look at the exact same data and come to drastically different conclusions not because one is brilliant, kind, and pretty while the other is stupid, evil, and smelly. We have all experienced life differently and because of that have different priorities and different views of what the ideal society would be. Of course those we have voted to rule our lives benefit by keeping us divided so they stir the pot with rhetoric to keep us battling right v left, rich v poor, black v white, red state v blue state. No one wins except the ruling class. __________________ Getting knocked down is no sin, it's not getting back up that's the sin

05-08-2011, 01:15 PM	#2
Undertoad Radical Centrist Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Cottage of Prussia Posts: 31,423	There's a display mode for you (upper right, Display Modes, Threaded Mode), but it doesn't really work because Quick Reply doesn't count in Threading. Massive alteration of vBulletin is not going to happen.

05-08-2011, 02:05 PM	#7
Undertoad Radical Centrist Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Cottage of Prussia Posts: 31,423	There is in fact a "red card yellow card" system built in to vBulletin, and a user getting infractions can be automatically penalized into a different user group or banned entirely. The problem is that such a system changes, and complicates, the dynamic of the forum. Many forums offer reward systems, in the forum of up or down votes. People at such places are not honestly themselves, but are competing to win ups or downs. Circlejerks reinforce themselves with upvotes. Hive minds develop. Some are ostracized with downvotes. Imagine the internal politics that could develop. Imagine a Cellar Red Card Bannination Crew, working in consort. We'd have discussions breaking down into which user got close to making a heretical statement, and what penance they should offer to make things right. It'd be uglier than it is now.

05-08-2011, 03:06 PM	#10
Undertoad Radical Centrist Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Cottage of Prussia Posts: 31,423	Earplugs.

05-08-2011, 04:10 PM	#11
Undertoad Radical Centrist Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Cottage of Prussia Posts: 31,423	I don't think there are enough mods to manage it.

05-08-2011, 11:09 PM	#15
Fair&Balanced Operations Operative Join Date: Feb 2011 Posts: 495	Lookout, sorry, but I disagree. I think that is an easy way out of addressing the problem. My disagreement is the manner in which people "discuss" their differences. I have had brief, but interesting discussions with Flint and Classicman in which we disagreed, but we were respectful. That is not the case with one member here. One who, in my experience, is always the first to start with the name-calling (pussy, asshole, loser,...), who arrogantly refuses to provide facts to support his position when requested but instead demands that others prove him wrong and who broadly categorizes anything he doesnt agree with as biased or propaganda (including facts like text of laws). If you think the discussions could be better, my suggestion is to start with the biggest deterrent. I get that he is a "valued" member of the community. If the community wants to skirt around it and doesnt want to address, then so be it. If that is the case, its no big deal. Those who want a more civil and respectful discussion of political issues will find it elsewhere. added: And, yes, I am guilty of responding in less than the most respectful manners at times, but I would urge you to look at the discussions in the totality. Last edited by Fair&Balanced; 05-08-2011 at 11:14 PM.

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