Those Funny Folks at PETA Are at it Again - Page 6

Happy Monkey · 08-17-2005, 03:54 PM

So any behavior we witness in the animal kingdom is therefore moral?

mricytoast · 08-17-2005, 09:39 PM

I believe the statistic for the grain to meat ratio is that a cow is fed 3500 pounds of grain in its life to produce 500 pounds of meat. The average cow raised for food purposes produces 50 pounds of waste excrement (poop and urine) a day. And that excrement has been known to decimate stream and river populations due to runoff, as well as create a horribly unpleasent odor, and create land that is essentially bactarially infested, making it unlivable.

Morality is based on perspective. It is an entirely human concept. The issue is that being supposed moral beings, we should be ethical enough to at least take into consideration the conditions under which these animals die. It isn't only a moral issue, but it is a logical issue. Unsanitary slaughter conditions and unsafe workplaces are a breeding ground for disease and, with all the fear about terrorism, the easy access to, because of consolidation of the meatpacking companies, the ability to easily transmit a potentially lethal pathogen.

As for as using more fossil fuels, I don't think it is so much of that, but more that these animals produce an extreme amount of methane gas, which has been directly linked to Global Warming.

Meat is a very easily accessible source of protein, an essential nutrient in our diets. The carnivorous life style offered somewhat more security, as predators would be more unlikely to attack a creature that was adept at killing. However, this is no longer the case, as we have virtually wiped out the threat of predatory creatures within the safety of our concrete jungles. So, yes, the logical solution here is to move onto a vegetarian diet. Along with providing a much more nutrient rich diet, it has been shown to reduce the risks of colon cancer.

I'm not saying that people should move to a strictly vegetarian diet. I think people have the right to choose what they want to eat. The issue at hand isn't whether or not it is moral to kill another animal for its flesh; on the contrary, the issue is why have we, being such moral creatures, allowed this injustice in the slaughterhouses to continue? Why do we line these beasts up and process them with such speed and deliberance? The first thing that comes to mind here is Eric Schlosser's book, Fast Food Nation. But the other object is a film, an anime to be more precise, titled Mononoke Hime. It doesn't pertain entirely to the issue of eating meat, but more to the almost cancerous attitude we have taken towards the Earth. I think we are heading in entirely the wrong direction with our stance towards how we treat the Earth. We need to look at the long term consequences, instead of selfishly looking to the short term.

I think PETA is wrong in wanting people to stop eating meat. Meat is not murder, it is effeciency, in all reality. Depending on the viewpoint, meat and the byproducts from the animal, such as fur and fats, is survival of the fittest, in a rather cruel sense. The perfect example is the American Indians. They used everything; leaving something to waste would be a sin against Nature herself. I know this doesn't really pertain to people anymore, but the idea of not wasting should still stand. With such an overabundance, we have become lax and completely ignore the threat that a famine might affect the more developed countries.

Bullitt · 08-17-2005, 11:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Happy Monkey

So any behavior we witness in the animal kingdom is therefore moral?

Our actions of pollution, environment destruction, torture, and unnecessary killing aside yes. It is moral for a lioness to kill a gazell, it is moral for a shark to consume a tuna, and it is moral for a human to consume the flesh of another animal.

Happy Monkey · 08-18-2005, 06:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bullitt

Our actions of pollution, environment destruction, torture, and unnecessary killing aside yes.

Why do you put those aside? Is it moral when a lion kills its cub? Would it be moral for a human to kill their child?

Bullitt · 08-18-2005, 09:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Happy Monkey

Why do you put those aside? Is it moral when a lion kills its cub? Would it be moral for a human to kill their child?

Because I'm not talking about how we lay waste to the environment, I'm talking about the simple fact that it is not immoral for one animal to consume another for the sole purpose of sustenance.

[edit] 400 posts.. go me

Happy Monkey · 08-18-2005, 09:28 AM

How about the lion?

Bullitt · 08-18-2005, 09:34 AM

If it is doing so simply to survive then yes. Just like the soccer team that had to resort to cannibalism after their jet crashed in the mountains. My point is, it is moral to consume whatever you need to survive and thrive, not to the point of excess or for sport.

Happy Monkey · 08-18-2005, 09:37 AM

No, it does it to reduce competition.

Bullitt · 08-18-2005, 09:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Happy Monkey

No, it does it to reduce competition.

"If it is doing so simply to survive then yes."

Troubleshooter · 08-18-2005, 10:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Happy Monkey

How about the lion?

It's doing it to eliminate the genes of the previous mate who apparently proved inferior. Thus it is a survival trait for the pride.

Or so they say...

Happy Monkey · 08-18-2005, 11:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bullitt

"If it is doing so simply to survive then yes."

So, if I think a child will grow up to compete with me, it is moral to kill it?

Trilby · 08-18-2005, 11:15 AM

Male cats of all sizes do the "kill the kittens of the previous Tom and re-impregnante the Queens with my own seed" thing. You'll notice, it's the males who are murderous. The females will nurse any kitten--an orphan kitten, a kitten who belongs to another female, etc.; male cats seem determined that their genes are passed along and female cats seem determined that the species shall endure.

Troubleshooter · 08-18-2005, 11:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brianna

Male cats of all sizes do the "kill the kittens of the previous Tom and re-impregnante the Queens with my own seed" thing. You'll notice, it's the males who are murderous. The females will nurse any kitten--an orphan kitten, a kitten who belongs to another female, etc.; male cats seem determined that their genes are passed along and female cats seem determined that the species shall endure.

Another way of wording that could be that the males are concerned that the best survive and the females aren't quite so discriminating.

Sort of the reverse of humanity...

Trilby · 08-18-2005, 11:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Troubleshooter

Another way of wording that could be that the males are concerned that the best survive and the females aren't quite so discriminating.

Sort of the reverse of humanity...

Define "best".

Bullitt · 08-18-2005, 11:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Happy Monkey

So, if I think a child will grow up to compete with me, it is moral to kill it?

The environment we live in is a tad different than that of lions in case you haven't noticed..

08-17-2005, 03:54 PM	#76
Happy Monkey I think this line's mostly filler. Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: DC Posts: 13,575	So any behavior we witness in the animal kingdom is therefore moral? __________________ _________________ \|...............\| We live in the nick of times. \| Len 17, Wid 3 \| \|_______________\| [pics]

08-18-2005, 09:28 AM	#81
Happy Monkey I think this line's mostly filler. Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: DC Posts: 13,575	How about the lion? __________________ _________________ \|...............\| We live in the nick of times. \| Len 17, Wid 3 \| \|_______________\| [pics]

08-18-2005, 09:34 AM	#82
Bullitt This is a fully functional babe lair Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Akron, OH Posts: 2,324	If it is doing so simply to survive then yes. Just like the soccer team that had to resort to cannibalism after their jet crashed in the mountains. My point is, it is moral to consume whatever you need to survive and thrive, not to the point of excess or for sport. __________________ Kiss my white Irish ass. Last edited by Bullitt; 08-18-2005 at 09:38 AM.

08-18-2005, 09:37 AM	#83
Happy Monkey I think this line's mostly filler. Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: DC Posts: 13,575	No, it does it to reduce competition. __________________ _________________ \|...............\| We live in the nick of times. \| Len 17, Wid 3 \| \|_______________\| [pics]

08-18-2005, 11:15 AM	#87
Trilby Slattern of the Swail Join Date: Jul 2004 Posts: 15,654	Male cats of all sizes do the "kill the kittens of the previous Tom and re-impregnante the Queens with my own seed" thing. You'll notice, it's the males who are murderous. The females will nurse any kitten--an orphan kitten, a kitten who belongs to another female, etc.; male cats seem determined that their genes are passed along and female cats seem determined that the species shall endure. __________________ In Barrie's play and novel, the roles of fairies are brief: they are allies to the Lost Boys, the source of fairy dust and ...They are portrayed as dangerous, whimsical and extremely clever but quite hedonistic. "Shall I give you a kiss?" Peter asked and, jerking an acorn button off his coat, solemnly presented it to her. —James Barrie Wimminfolk they be tricksy. - ZenGum

08-17-2005, 09:39 PM	#77
mricytoast Drawn Druid Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 32	I believe the statistic for the grain to meat ratio is that a cow is fed 3500 pounds of grain in its life to produce 500 pounds of meat. The average cow raised for food purposes produces 50 pounds of waste excrement (poop and urine) a day. And that excrement has been known to decimate stream and river populations due to runoff, as well as create a horribly unpleasent odor, and create land that is essentially bactarially infested, making it unlivable. Morality is based on perspective. It is an entirely human concept. The issue is that being supposed moral beings, we should be ethical enough to at least take into consideration the conditions under which these animals die. It isn't only a moral issue, but it is a logical issue. Unsanitary slaughter conditions and unsafe workplaces are a breeding ground for disease and, with all the fear about terrorism, the easy access to, because of consolidation of the meatpacking companies, the ability to easily transmit a potentially lethal pathogen. As for as using more fossil fuels, I don't think it is so much of that, but more that these animals produce an extreme amount of methane gas, which has been directly linked to Global Warming. Meat is a very easily accessible source of protein, an essential nutrient in our diets. The carnivorous life style offered somewhat more security, as predators would be more unlikely to attack a creature that was adept at killing. However, this is no longer the case, as we have virtually wiped out the threat of predatory creatures within the safety of our concrete jungles. So, yes, the logical solution here is to move onto a vegetarian diet. Along with providing a much more nutrient rich diet, it has been shown to reduce the risks of colon cancer. I'm not saying that people should move to a strictly vegetarian diet. I think people have the right to choose what they want to eat. The issue at hand isn't whether or not it is moral to kill another animal for its flesh; on the contrary, the issue is why have we, being such moral creatures, allowed this injustice in the slaughterhouses to continue? Why do we line these beasts up and process them with such speed and deliberance? The first thing that comes to mind here is Eric Schlosser's book, Fast Food Nation. But the other object is a film, an anime to be more precise, titled Mononoke Hime. It doesn't pertain entirely to the issue of eating meat, but more to the almost cancerous attitude we have taken towards the Earth. I think we are heading in entirely the wrong direction with our stance towards how we treat the Earth. We need to look at the long term consequences, instead of selfishly looking to the short term. I think PETA is wrong in wanting people to stop eating meat. Meat is not murder, it is effeciency, in all reality. Depending on the viewpoint, meat and the byproducts from the animal, such as fur and fats, is survival of the fittest, in a rather cruel sense. The perfect example is the American Indians. They used everything; leaving something to waste would be a sin against Nature herself. I know this doesn't really pertain to people anymore, but the idea of not wasting should still stand. With such an overabundance, we have become lax and completely ignore the threat that a famine might affect the more developed countries.

Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)