Do You Own a Gun? - Page 9

TheMercenary · 04-26-2007, 01:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shawnee123

Yeah, ugly bitch...I got that. You really did turn out to be the cunt everyone said you are...I would think if you look like that you would try to be a nicer person. You know, so you had SOMETHING going for you.

buby bubitch

Is that better or worse than being an asshole? Let me know so I can figure out where I stand.

Radar · 04-26-2007, 01:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by piercehawkeye45

Then how can you be born without human rights? If it is a tangible reality that means you could be born without it, then how can you be born without human rights?

Being a tangible reality does not mean you can be born without them. How can you be born into a planet without gravity? You can't. The same is true of rights. You are born with them and can't be born without them.

Quote:

Originally Posted by piercehawkeye45

This could be true, but it is a very human self-centered idea that seems to be disproven everywhere in the universe saying that humans aren't anything special in the eyes of the universe.

Disproven? by whom? when did this happen? As far as I know we've had no non-humans do tests in other parts of the universe to see if it exists without humans to perceive it. Do you know a Martian?

Quote:

Originally Posted by piercehawkeye45

If you "effect" someone negatively, you violate someone’s rights as a person.

That's entirely false. I can sing a tune that you are displeased with and effected by, but I have not violated your rights by singing it. You do not have the right to not be offended, but I do have the right to express myself freely.

Quote:

Originally Posted by piercehawkeye45

So when did humans start to have human rights?

The moment the first human was born.

Quote:

Originally Posted by piercehawkeye45

Was there suddenly a time when we had these rights or what?

The natural rights I've described have existed for as gravity has existed.

Quote:

Originally Posted by piercehawkeye45

How do you know? What makes you think that your version of human rights are the right one?

I don't have a "version" of human rights. Nor do you. Nor does anyone. Human rights are there even if you choose not to recognize them as part of the laws of nature. They exist even if you are prevented from exercising them. All humans have the same rights despite any personal beliefs they may or may not have.

Quote:

Originally Posted by piercehawkeye45

Once you join a society then you do have rights and I'm sure no one here denies that it is just that without a society you don't have any rights because society invented that concept so people could live peacefully with each other.

Society has not invented anything; individuals have. Rights are not an invention. They are a law of nature and are as real as any law of physics. Without a society you have all rights. With a society you have all rights. Your rights are the same regardless of whether or not you are living around others and regardless of what the laws are in a particular government where you may live.

Beestie · 04-26-2007, 02:00 PM

I would ask the persistent Mr. Hawkeye: What exactly is your question, sir. Exactly what is your question?

monster · 04-26-2007, 03:02 PM

no, but beest has two paintball guns, I'm guessing that doesn't count? (Still kept well out of reach of sproglets, though -a paintball in the eye is not amusing.)

I can't imagine anyone I know owning a gun, even though i live in America. Mind you, this is hippy town and almost everyone I know has children.

piercehawkeye45 · 04-26-2007, 03:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Beestie

I would ask the persistent Mr. Hawkeye: What exactly is your question, sir. Exactly what is your question?

Edit - Look at the end of my next post.

zippyt · 04-26-2007, 03:22 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by zippyt View Post
Zip-ese

Well !! I didn't know that a language had been named after me ,
This could be fun !!!
Complete with the total inability to spell. Just like your hick people.

Well Nanny boo boo to you too FuckTard !!!!

piercehawkeye45 · 04-26-2007, 03:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Radar

Being a tangible reality does not mean you can be born without them. How can you be born into a planet without gravity? You can't. The same is true of rights. You are born with them and can't be born without them.

You can go to into deep space where gravity is at a minimum and attempt to give birth but you can never give birth to someone without human’s rights. One is a physical concept because you can take gravity away and one is a abstract philosophical concept because you can not physically take it away.

Quote:

Disproven? by whom? when did this happen? As far as I know we've had no non-humans do tests in other parts of the universe to see if it exists without humans to perceive it. Do you know a Martian?

I said it "seems to be disproven". If all humans die tomorrow, everything the world tells us is that it will move on with or without us.

Quote:

That's entirely false. I can sing a tune that you are displeased with and effected by, but I have not violated your rights by singing it. You do not have the right to not be offended, but I do have the right to express myself freely.

I do not have a right to be offended? If you are singing a tune that displeases me, that takes away my ability to be happy. You do have a right to express yourself and I have a right to be happy, when these two conflict we have to come up with a compromise.

Quote:

The moment the first human was born.

There was never a first human because humans are constantly evolving. There is never an exact point where a child becomes an adult. We place an age on it but the difference between the two is no different then any instant when someone is a child or an adult.

Quote:

The natural rights I've described have existed for as gravity has existed.

I thought they came when the first human was born?

Quote:

I don't have a "version" of human rights. Nor do you. Nor does anyone. Human rights are there even if you choose not to recognize them as part of the laws of nature. They exist even if you are prevented from exercising them. All humans have the same rights despite any personal beliefs they may or may not have.

How do we know what natural rights are? There is nothing that says what natural rights are. They are all made by individuals and there view of the world around them.

Quote:

Society has not invented anything; individuals have. Rights are not an invention. They are a law of nature and are as real as any law of physics. Without a society you have all rights. With a society you have all rights. Your rights are the same regardless of whether or not you are living around others and regardless of what the laws are in a particular government where you may live.

You have to compromise your rights when you live with other people because they will conflict.

I guess I do have a philosphical question Beestie.

If you have something that can not be taken away from you does it really exist or is it just an illusion?

(Just for the record, I should have said you have to compromise your rights, or illusion of rights, when you live in a society. You technically still have them, but you are not allowed to use them.)

Radar · 04-26-2007, 03:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by piercehawkeye45

You can go to into deep space where gravity is at a minimum and attempt to give birth but you can never give birth to someone without human’s rights. One is a physical concept because you can take gravity away and one is a abstract philosophical concept because you can not physically take it away.

Rights are as real, tangible, physical, and undeniable as gravity. You can go in the deepest recesses of space and gravity still exists, though its strength is diminished. Your rights exist even within the most fascist and brutal nations, they are being violated and you are prevented from exercising them, but they still exist. You can not physically take away gravity, and you can not physically take away rights.

Quote:

Originally Posted by piercehawkeye45

I said it "seems to be disproven". If all humans die tomorrow, everything the world tells us is that it will move on with or without us.

That is an opinion. I'm talking about facts. Rights exist as a matter of fact, not opinion.

Quote:

Originally Posted by piercehawkeye45

I do not have a right to be offended? If you are singing a tune that displeases me, that takes away my ability to be happy. You do have a right to express yourself and I have a right to be happy, when these two conflict we have to come up with a compromise.

You have the right to PURSUE happiness. You are not guaranteed happiness. If you dislike the tune I'm singing, you are free to go somewhere that makes you happier, or to wear earplugs. My singing has nothing to do with your ability to pursue happiness.

Quote:

Originally Posted by piercehawkeye45

There was never a first human because humans are constantly evolving. There is never an exact point where a child becomes an adult. We place an age on it but the difference between the two is no different then any instant when someone is a child or an adult.

There was a first human and there will be a last human too. The age at which someone becomes an adult is fluid. I know plenty of 60 year olds who are not adults, and 15 year olds who are.

Quote:

Originally Posted by piercehawkeye45

I thought they came when the first human was born?

No, human rights didn't appear when the first human was born. They have existed for all time and the first human was imbued with them at birth.

Quote:

Originally Posted by piercehawkeye45

How do we know what natural rights are? There is nothing that says what natural rights are. They are all made by individuals and there view of the world around them.

The beauty of natural rights is they don't have to be enumerated or codified. We have the right to do ANYTHING as long as our actions do not prevent another person from exercising their rights, and do not physically harm or endanger that person or their property.

Quote:

Originally Posted by piercehawkeye45

You have to compromise your rights when you live with other people because they will conflict.

I don't argue this. I've always maintained that one persons rights end where another's begin. But you seem to not only have a hard time comprehending the meaning of rights, but you also have a hard time distinguishing them from privileges or desires. My right to sing a song you don't like supersedes your desire not to hear it. The most minor of my rights is more important than your most fervent desire.

Quote:

Originally Posted by piercehawkeye45

If you have something that can not be taken away from you does it really exist or is it just an illusion?

If you love someone, does it exist? Can someone take from you the love you have for your mother? Is the love you have for your mother merely an illusion?

Quote:

Originally Posted by piercehawkeye45

(Just for the record, I should have said you have to compromise your rights, or illusion of rights, when you live in a society. You technically still have them, but you are not allowed to use them.)

There is no illusion of rights. There are rights and there are privileges and they are complete opposites. When you live in a "society" you don't have to give up your rights or even compromise them anymore than just respecting the equal rights of others. Most of the time there are those in a society who want to impose their desire onto others and prevent them from exercising their rights through force, but they still have the rights.

Happy Monkey · 04-26-2007, 04:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Radar

There was a first human and there will be a last human too.

Are you talking about Adam, or something more akin to Lucy?

Because in the latter case, no matter how you define "human", the first one would in all likelihood be more similar to its "nonhuman" parents than to you. Do natural rights apply to those parents?

busterb · 04-26-2007, 04:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shawnee123

Complete with the total inability to spell. Just like your hick people.

I just caught up with this shit. And to think I once saw you as a SMART AND BRIGHT lady. oh well And by the fucking way Zip and I are running neck and neck on the spelling. Thank you very flappin much.

Spexxvet · 04-26-2007, 05:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wolf

So that and taunting him about the election results* was reasoned argument? I must have missed something, somewhere.

* I applaud Radar's courage in running with the deck stacked against him to that extent.

That was after I turned the other cheek twice - that's all he gets. I know: you conservatives need teamwork to even come close to winning an argument against one liberal. And still, you lose.

Spexxvet · 04-26-2007, 05:02 PM

Radar, you can think that you are born with all the rights you want - if your neighbor doesn't buy into the same societal convention, he will kill you and take your stuff and your women. So good luck with that.

busterb · 04-26-2007, 05:15 PM

Nuf said.

zippyt · 04-26-2007, 05:35 PM

if your neighbor doesn't buy into the same societal convention, he will kill you and take your stuff and your women. So good luck with that.

Thus the need for a gun to defend your self and your stuff .

jinx · 04-26-2007, 05:47 PM

Right on, Buster.

Does anyone else completely tune people out once they start throwing around "you conservatives" or "you liberals" as an argument?

View Poll Results: Do you own a gun?
Yes	27	42.86%
No	36	57.14%
Voters: 63. You may not vote on this poll

04-26-2007, 02:00 PM	#123
Beestie -◊\|≡·∙■·∙≡\|◊- Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Parts unknown. Posts: 4,081	I would ask the persistent Mr. Hawkeye: What exactly is your question, sir. Exactly what is your question? __________________ ♠ ♥ ♣ ♦

04-26-2007, 03:02 PM	#124
monster I hear them call the tide Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Perpetual Chaos Posts: 30,852	no, but beest has two paintball guns, I'm guessing that doesn't count? (Still kept well out of reach of sproglets, though -a paintball in the eye is not amusing.) I can't imagine anyone I know owning a gun, even though i live in America. Mind you, this is hippy town and almost everyone I know has children. __________________ The most difficult thing is the decision to act, the rest is merely tenacity Amelia Earhart

04-26-2007, 03:22 PM	#126
zippyt LONG LIVE KING ZIPPY! per Feetz Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Arkansas Posts: 7,661	Quote: Originally Posted by zippyt View Post Zip-ese Well !! I didn't know that a language had been named after me , This could be fun !!! Complete with the total inability to spell. Just like your hick people. Well Nanny boo boo to you too FuckTard !!!! __________________ "Success is getting what you want. Happiness is wanting what you get. " Brother Dave Gardner

04-26-2007, 05:02 PM	#132
Spexxvet Makes some feel uncomfortable Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts: 10,346	Radar, you can think that you are born with all the rights you want - if your neighbor doesn't buy into the same societal convention, he will kill you and take your stuff and your women. So good luck with that. __________________ "I'm certainly free, nay compelled, to spread the gospel of Spex. " - xoxoxoBruce

04-26-2007, 05:15 PM	#133
busterb NSABFD Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: MS. usa Posts: 3,908	Nuf said. Attached Images __________________ I've haven't left very deep footprints in the sands of time. But, boy I've left a bunch.

04-26-2007, 05:35 PM	#134
zippyt LONG LIVE KING ZIPPY! per Feetz Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Arkansas Posts: 7,661	if your neighbor doesn't buy into the same societal convention, he will kill you and take your stuff and your women. So good luck with that. Thus the need for a gun to defend your self and your stuff . __________________ "Success is getting what you want. Happiness is wanting what you get. " Brother Dave Gardner

04-26-2007, 05:47 PM	#135
jinx Come on, cat. Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: general vicinity of Philadelphia area Posts: 7,013	Right on, Buster. Does anyone else completely tune people out once they start throwing around "you conservatives" or "you liberals" as an argument? __________________ Crying won't help you, praying won't do you no good.

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