Bush administration puts the kibosh on stem cell research

buz46 · 06-18-2002, 09:44 PM

http://salon.com/mwt/feature/2002/06...ant/index.html

The above salon article is as frightening, to me, as the the rapid deconstruction, imho, of our civil liberties. However, it seems all the more sinister b/c it has been lost in the shuffle of post 9/11 hysteria. Here is a sample of Leon Kass's logic regarding stem cell research, as it pertains to prolonging human life and alleviating human suffering:

Quote:

According to Kass, it is a deeply fundamental aspect of life to suffer and die. When we try to fix this natural order, we lose our soul, our essential humanity. This is a dressed-up version of the creaky "natural law" argument that John Stuart Mill shot down in the 1800s.

Quote:

Kass' theories are based on the idea that nature knows best. This is the antithesis of scientific progress, which is always trying to control nature. Those who abide exclusively by natural law are comfortable with diseases because they're a part of nature. Science aims to tame nature and cure diseases. Reasonable people will accept parts of each philosophy, but Kass comes down too firmly on the side of nature, to the detriment of humans.

While we are glued to CNN, waiting for the "imminent attack", Shrub is slipping potential legislation like this past us.

buz46 · 06-18-2002, 09:48 PM

Just thought I would point out, before anyone else does, that my "quotes" are those of Salon's columnist, not Leon Kass.
Buz46

Undertoad · 06-18-2002, 10:30 PM

Just for the record, I'm glued to CNN (averaging 6 hours a day) but I signed the Franklin Society petition.

buz46 · 06-19-2002, 12:04 AM

Damn! too late to sign, but I can still send a letter to Bab's Mikulski. The long list of signatures is definately encouraging; thanx for the link Undertoad

spinningfetus · 06-19-2002, 11:46 PM

We exist in nature right? So, then by defintion aren't our actions fundamentally natural?

buz46 · 06-20-2002, 12:30 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by spinningfetus
We exist in nature right? So, then by defintion aren't our actions fundamentally natural?

I wholeheartedly agree; it's like I told my mom, theres no such thing as artificial flavors. They have to come from somewhere.

Incidentally, I have been "lurking" all day waiting for someone to respond to my threads. Thank God for you Rotatingembryo

tw · 06-20-2002, 06:41 PM

A philosophy common to right wing religious extremists (RREs) - they must protect us from ourselves. Only they are god's chosen enlightened people? Only they can can define morality?

However, in a tradition of thinking outside the box, I accuse religious conservatives of being heretics. No, they are not opposed to the thinking of the church. RREs are opposed to real religion. They oppose the real principals of god's laws. RREs are god's most unchosen people because RREs pervert the principals of honoring god.

Who are the most religious people? Not anyone who blindly preaches the Koran, Bible, or Tora. Those are heretics. They believe that all god's laws are already defined in those books. We call that myopia. Those were good books - just like the first book on geometry was a good book. It was a good first draft. But real religious people are constantly learning more of god's laws every day. The real religious people are expanding our knowledge of god's laws - physics, mathematics, astro-physics, medicine, electronics, logic, psychology, quantum mechanics, chemistry, history, genetics, material science, statistics, etc. These are all studies in god's laws.

The enemies of mankind would have us only know what was published in their first draft. RREs fear men who would expand knowledge of god's laws. They would have us all bury our heads in sand, like ostriches, because RREs are the enemy of any society that honors god.

No wonder the church imprisions Galileo. No wonder the church would have witches burned at the stake. No wonder RREs fear stem cell research. No wonder religious right extremists preach intolerance - or do so when we will not notice - when it is policitally correct and safe to be honest about RRE's real ideals.

This intolerant attitude - this need to protect society from itself - is why our president so endorses extremist right wing religious concepts. He is trained as an MBA; he endorses anti-innovative ideas so fundamentally taught in the business schools. Like RREs, our president fears innovation - the learning of more of god's laws.

Innovators are god's chosen people. They constantly seek out and learn more laws. They are not limited by a myopic and routinely distorted 10 Commandments. RRE leaders, like MBA managers, fear innovation. RREs, like bean couner mentalities, meet the definition of anti-American - people who fear to advance mankind.

Innovation is god's religion. Everyone claims to have god on their side. But those who most strive to learn more of gods laws - ie stem cell researchers - are the ones who always win the wars. God's chosen people quickly dominated in Afganistan - a slam dunk. Those who so learned god's laws dominated in the Persian Gulf war. Those who used god's laws would destroy intolerant extremists such as Nazis. The winning side did not stop learning god's laws and therefore became rich and powerful. They are god's chosen people. Among those god's laws are fundamentals of tolerance, empowerment, independence, innovation, and the advancement of mankind - something that RREs fear. The RREs would have you believe all this can be obtained in saying more prayers. The RREs are heretics.

Tolerance. Where others are permitted to try and fail. Tolerance. Where government does not legislate until industry failures require that legislation. In previous posts, we have demonstrated where innovative industries such as computers require little government regulation because the industry is so willing to advance society - in seeking more of god's laws. The finance industry has demonstrated no such responsiblity. They have violated their trust. They have failed to regulate themselves or set responsible standards. Therefore the finance industry deserves government regulation. This is not morality. This is what we have learned as we have studies god's laws - in history and other sciences. Tolerance is so important in advancing mankind - in learning more of god's laws.

There is no reason to regulate stem cell research. First the industry must be permitted to establish their own standards. Only after failing to establish standards should these researchers then be imposed with government regulation.

But back we go to the fundamental philososphy of religious right extremists. RREs are intolerant. RREs cannot trust anyone else to impose right wing morality on themselves. Only the RREs can make moral laws. They must impose their will on us - it is their duty as worshippers of a heretic religion.

The RRE will deny this - obviously since even the RRE have spin doctors. But imposing RRE morality on everyone else IS the objective of those RREs. In reality, RREs do not represent god. Those who are tolerant are god's chosen people. Those who innovate. Those who advance mankind therefore worship god. RRE are heretics and perverts (which might explain why child molesters thrive in a now most conservative Catholic Church).

Griff · 06-21-2002, 07:24 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by tw
A philosophy common to right wing religious extremists (RREs) - they must protect us from ourselves.

A philosophy common to all statists left, right, and center.

Quote:

Innovation is god's religion. Everyone claims to have god on their side.

Not everyone, but you it would seem.

spinningfetus · 06-21-2002, 01:58 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by tw

Who are the most religious people? Not anyone who blindly preaches the Koran, Bible, or Tora. Those are heretics. They believe that all god's laws are already defined in those books. We call that myopia. Those were good books - just like the first book on geometry was a good book. It was a good first draft. But real religious people are constantly learning more of god's laws every day. The real religious people are expanding our knowledge of god's laws - physics, mathematics, astro-physics, medicine, electronics, logic, psychology, quantum mechanics, chemistry, history, genetics, material science, statistics, etc. These are all studies in god's laws.

word. I don't really believe in God in the traditional sense, but is irrelevant, from that point of view, what could be a higher celebration of God's creation than a balanced, just, peaceful, and prosperous mankind? A question of whether or not to improve people's lives should be simple to answer.

elSicomoro · 06-21-2002, 09:12 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by buz46
Damn! too late to sign, but I can still send a letter to Bab's Mikulski.

And maybe...just maybe, her bulldog-looking self will get on TV with her whiny Baltimore-sounding voice and rant about it.

buz46 · 06-22-2002, 01:17 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by sycamore

And maybe...just maybe, her bulldog-looking self will get on TV with her whiny Baltimore-sounding voice and rant about it.

She's gowin downyoshun hun (Baltimore speak for, going down to the ocean honey.) We D.C. Marylanders, (those who live inside the beltway) of course, do not speak that way.
http://www.stationmasters.com/System...ystem_map.html I live on the red line at Takoma

elSicomoro · 06-22-2002, 01:31 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by buz46
I live on the red line at Takoma

Cool. Rho and I used to live in Mt. Rainier, a couple of blocks from the West Hyattsville station (green line).

You can't completely fault her though...she's from Highlandtown.

06-22-2002, 03:08 PM

w0rd! I'm from Maryland, but I currently live in Fairfax, VA (outside the beltway, but not by much). I'm literally 5 minutes from the west end of the green line.

The Cellar's Beltway Bandits.

elSicomoro · 06-22-2002, 03:19 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by dhamsaic
w0rd! I'm from Maryland, but I currently live in Fairfax, VA (outside the beltway, but not by much). I'm literally 5 minutes from the west end of the green line.

Ummm...try orange line (Vienna/Fairfax/GMU).

06-22-2002, 08:16 PM

Whatever.

06-19-2002, 11:46 PM	#5
spinningfetus Major Inhabitant Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Between a rock and a hard place... Posts: 122	We exist in nature right? So, then by defintion aren't our actions fundamentally natural? __________________ Don't turn you back on the bottle, its never turned its back on you. -Boozy the Clown

06-18-2002, 09:48 PM	#2
buz46 Layperson Join Date: May 2002 Location: I live in the ultra-hip washington D.C. suburbbbbb of Takoma Park Maryland Posts: 13	Just thought I would point out, before anyone else does, that my "quotes" are those of Salon's columnist, not Leon Kass. Buz46

06-18-2002, 10:30 PM	#3
Undertoad Radical Centrist Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Cottage of Prussia Posts: 31,423	Just for the record, I'm glued to CNN (averaging 6 hours a day) but I signed the Franklin Society petition.

06-19-2002, 12:04 AM	#4
buz46 Layperson Join Date: May 2002 Location: I live in the ultra-hip washington D.C. suburbbbbb of Takoma Park Maryland Posts: 13	Damn! too late to sign, but I can still send a letter to Bab's Mikulski. The long list of signatures is definately encouraging; thanx for the link Undertoad

06-20-2002, 06:41 PM	#7
tw Read? I only know how to write. Join Date: Jan 2001 Posts: 11,933	A philosophy common to right wing religious extremists (RREs) - they must protect us from ourselves. Only they are god's chosen enlightened people? Only they can can define morality? However, in a tradition of thinking outside the box, I accuse religious conservatives of being heretics. No, they are not opposed to the thinking of the church. RREs are opposed to real religion. They oppose the real principals of god's laws. RREs are god's most unchosen people because RREs pervert the principals of honoring god. Who are the most religious people? Not anyone who blindly preaches the Koran, Bible, or Tora. Those are heretics. They believe that all god's laws are already defined in those books. We call that myopia. Those were good books - just like the first book on geometry was a good book. It was a good first draft. But real religious people are constantly learning more of god's laws every day. The real religious people are expanding our knowledge of god's laws - physics, mathematics, astro-physics, medicine, electronics, logic, psychology, quantum mechanics, chemistry, history, genetics, material science, statistics, etc. These are all studies in god's laws. The enemies of mankind would have us only know what was published in their first draft. RREs fear men who would expand knowledge of god's laws. They would have us all bury our heads in sand, like ostriches, because RREs are the enemy of any society that honors god. No wonder the church imprisions Galileo. No wonder the church would have witches burned at the stake. No wonder RREs fear stem cell research. No wonder religious right extremists preach intolerance - or do so when we will not notice - when it is policitally correct and safe to be honest about RRE's real ideals. This intolerant attitude - this need to protect society from itself - is why our president so endorses extremist right wing religious concepts. He is trained as an MBA; he endorses anti-innovative ideas so fundamentally taught in the business schools. Like RREs, our president fears innovation - the learning of more of god's laws. Innovators are god's chosen people. They constantly seek out and learn more laws. They are not limited by a myopic and routinely distorted 10 Commandments. RRE leaders, like MBA managers, fear innovation. RREs, like bean couner mentalities, meet the definition of anti-American - people who fear to advance mankind. Innovation is god's religion. Everyone claims to have god on their side. But those who most strive to learn more of gods laws - ie stem cell researchers - are the ones who always win the wars. God's chosen people quickly dominated in Afganistan - a slam dunk. Those who so learned god's laws dominated in the Persian Gulf war. Those who used god's laws would destroy intolerant extremists such as Nazis. The winning side did not stop learning god's laws and therefore became rich and powerful. They are god's chosen people. Among those god's laws are fundamentals of tolerance, empowerment, independence, innovation, and the advancement of mankind - something that RREs fear. The RREs would have you believe all this can be obtained in saying more prayers. The RREs are heretics. Tolerance. Where others are permitted to try and fail. Tolerance. Where government does not legislate until industry failures require that legislation. In previous posts, we have demonstrated where innovative industries such as computers require little government regulation because the industry is so willing to advance society - in seeking more of god's laws. The finance industry has demonstrated no such responsiblity. They have violated their trust. They have failed to regulate themselves or set responsible standards. Therefore the finance industry deserves government regulation. This is not morality. This is what we have learned as we have studies god's laws - in history and other sciences. Tolerance is so important in advancing mankind - in learning more of god's laws. There is no reason to regulate stem cell research. First the industry must be permitted to establish their own standards. Only after failing to establish standards should these researchers then be imposed with government regulation. But back we go to the fundamental philososphy of religious right extremists. RREs are intolerant. RREs cannot trust anyone else to impose right wing morality on themselves. Only the RREs can make moral laws. They must impose their will on us - it is their duty as worshippers of a heretic religion. The RRE will deny this - obviously since even the RRE have spin doctors. But imposing RRE morality on everyone else IS the objective of those RREs. In reality, RREs do not represent god. Those who are tolerant are god's chosen people. Those who innovate. Those who advance mankind therefore worship god. RRE are heretics and perverts (which might explain why child molesters thrive in a now most conservative Catholic Church).

06-22-2002, 03:08 PM	#13
dave Guest Posts: n/a	w0rd! I'm from Maryland, but I currently live in Fairfax, VA (outside the beltway, but not by much). I'm literally 5 minutes from the west end of the green line. The Cellar's Beltway Bandits.

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