The Marines' new Jeep

[glatt]

The Growler.

At first glance it looks just like the old Jeep the army had in the '40s. It's a little different though, it uses basically a Yukon engine, which is pretty big. And it has an air suspension so it can drop down to squeeze into an Osprey. Other than that, it's your basic Jeep. (But not made by Jeep.) Oh, it has a top speed of only 45 mph on the highway. WTF? I know they won't normally want to go faster than 45, but wouldn't it be nice if it could do say, 60 mph for emergencies?

What would you expect it to cost? Just for reference, a 2009 2 door Jeep Wrangler X has a MSRP of $21,210. It's the closest thing Jeep seems to offer.



The 2009 Wrangler X is a 2 door 4wd V6. It doesn't have the air suspension like the Growler, but it's pretty similar otherwise, in my opinion. I mean, it's nicer looking, but you could always take the doors off if that's the look you are going for.

Seriously, what should this Growler cost? It's got the added air suspension, which isn't free. I'd expect it to be around $50K, just because military stuff always costs more. So that's my guess. $50K.

I'd be wrong. Last year, they estimated it would cost $209K. And if you want to get the version with a trailer so it can haul ammunition and a mortar, it will go for $1,078,000. Over a million dollars for a jeep. One jeep.

IMHO, the military needs to fix its procurement methods. Just go down to the dealership and buy 10 damn Jeeps for the price of one of these.

Washington Post article on it.

[footfootfoot]

Wasn't that the M.O. in Iraq? A shit load of toyota pickup trucks? cf Errol Flynn's "Fast, Cheap, and Out of Control."

I hope Obama does away with the "Smash and Grab" attitude of Gov't spending.

[Clodfobble]

How much of the cost is better materials, though? Reinforced metal, and that sort of thing. Like those Growler wheels look a lot beefier than the Jeep wheels--maybe they can go over crazy terrain better? Or maybe they're not even air-inflated tires, so they can't be shot out? I'm trying to imagine, for example, what happens if a roadside bomb explodes nearby each vehicle? Could the Jeep keep driving? Or would its axle have been torn in half? Maybe the Growler would be out of commission too though, I don't know.

[glatt]

I don't know either.

Clearly, military specification stuff is supposed to be tougher, and that will increase the price. This just seems excessive. The article says that this is not meant to offer any protection at all for the passengers. No armor. The version that tows the trailer has to be strong enough to tow the trailer, but that version also costs over a million dollars. 5 times more than the expensive model pictured above. The vehicle pictured is just supposed to be basic transportation, just like a jeep. But it fits in an Osprey.

Seems like you could outfit a $20K Jeep with some lowrider air shocks all for under $25K.

[lumberjim]

man, i wonder if they'd buy a few nissans

[ZenGum]

Remember, with anything military, every single component must meet certain specifications. At what torque will this bolt stip its thread? At what temperature will the tires melt? Can the windscreen wipers clear rain falling at 20mm per hour while driving at 45 mph into a 50 knot headwind? The army wants to know exactly what its gear can do.

All of these specs must first be decided - what temp the tires must be able to handle. Then the tires have to developed and manufactured to be able to handle it. Then they need to be tested and certified. The certifying company needs to be licenced. Security checks must be done on the staff involved. Etc etc etc. I'd say that the jeep as pictured costs about 50K, as per Glatt's guess, and the other 150K is for the paperwork.

I'm still trying to work that up to a million for the trailer version though. I can only guess a very small production run might contribute, but still....

[Griff]

Based on these two concerns, the U.S. government required that jeeps also be built by the Ford Motor Company, who designated the vehicle as model GPW (G = governmental vehicle, P showed the wheelbase, and W = the Willys design). Willys and Ford, under the direction of Charles E. Sorensen (Vice-President of Ford during World War II), produced more than 600,000 jeeps containing their cost slightly above 300 dollars per unit, due to its mass-production system economy. Besides just being a "truck" the jeep was used for many other purposes.

Why we would lose WWII if it happened tomorrow.

[footfootfoot]

These fucking people should be keel hauled.

[Crimson Ghost]

Originally Posted by glatt

IMHO, the military needs to fix its procurement methods. Just go down to the dealership and buy 10 damn Jeeps for the price of one of these.

If wishes were horses, beggars would ride.
And cheaper.

[xoxoxoBruce]

Originally Posted by Clodfobble

I'm trying to imagine, for example, what happens if a roadside bomb explodes nearby each vehicle? Could the Jeep keep driving? Or would its axle have been torn in half? Maybe the Growler would be out of commission too though, I don't know.

The jeep would be vaporized... and so would this piece of shit.

Because of their light armor and ammunition safety problems, "you can't run it up the highway in an urban area such as Iraq," said John Garner, the Marines' program manager for the vehicle. "But it could accompany foot-mobile Marine infantry in a not-built-up area such as Afghanistan," he added.

looks to me like I could stop this "Growler" with a damn slingshot... shoot the unprotected driver.

Originally Posted by ZenGum

Remember, with anything military, every single component must meet certain specifications. At what torque will this bolt stip its thread? At what temperature will the tires melt? Can the windscreen wipers clear rain falling at 20mm per hour while driving at 45 mph into a 50 knot headwind? The army wants to know exactly what its gear can do.

All of these specs must first be decided - what temp the tires must be able to handle. Then the tires have to developed and manufactured to be able to handle it. Then they need to be tested and certified. The certifying company needs to be licenced. Security checks must be done on the staff involved. Etc etc etc. I'd say that the jeep as pictured costs about 50K, as per Glatt's guess, and the other 150K is for the paperwork.

Yes, that's true. What we have is a standard procedure for buying hundreds of M-1 Tanks, dozens of F-22 fighter planes or less that 100 of these little pisspot imitation jeeps.

But why does this thing need power steering and power brakes? We're talking Marines here folks. And why can't the same model that pulls the gun, be used for reconnaissance? Probably because when you're sitting around making cost be damned wish lists, it sounded like a good idea.

What's telling, is that the people that should be preventing this bullshit saying, what's the problem, this always happens. Well they're right, it does, but it shouldn't and it's got to be stopped or we'll be broke and the military won't have what they need. Not either/or, both!

On a lighter note, the new Presidential helicopter... you remember, over 6 billion for 28 choppers... is now projected to be almost 12 billion. Anybody want a side bet it'll double again?

[ZenGum]

Originally Posted by xoxoxoBruce

Probably because when you're sitting around making cost be damned wish lists, it sounded like a good idea.

Good point.

For comparison, the base model Humvee cost around $65,000. The fully armoured version will be around $150,000.

So, we are agreed, the growler an overpriced piece of crap.

The real question, though, is whether the civilian crossover version will either pull chicks or look badass in the ghetto.


FAIL.

[Sundae]

Originally Posted by ZenGum

Remember, with anything military, every single component must meet certain specifications. At what torque will this bolt stip its thread? At what temperature will the tires melt? Can the windscreen wipers clear rain falling at 20mm per hour while driving at 45 mph into a 50 knot headwind? The army wants to know exactly what its gear can do.

The Dad of an ex of mine made a small fortune turning out parts for the armed forces. And I mean that - he wasn't a millionaire, but he was set up for life, with plenty to pass on when he died.

He had a small workshop, employed about 5 people, and made everything to the exact specification required. Only small parts, but because he was an approved contractor he was never short of work.

He sold the company when he was 70 (disappointed that his son had no interest in following him) and we all went out to dinner at an amazing hotel and drank a toast to Her Majesty the Queen and the Armed Forces. And he didn't mean it in a snide way either - he served in WWII and was proud to have continued to support the country in the way he had. The money was just the icing on the cake for him. It did make me wonder though... given that he was making such tiny things - how much did everything else cost?!

Now I know!

[TheMercenary]

Wow.

[regular.joe]

I don't know anything about the Growler, not gonna look it up right now. From the look of that thing, my reaction is:

It sucks, it's not tactically sound, won't protect anyone from dick, not even the rain..esp driving down the road at 45. It can barley hold people, let along people in full kit with basic load+ of ammo, radios and equipment. It's a golf cart with big wheels.

This has got to be a joke right? Ha..ha..ha..right?

Based on this line of thought...the contract is probably already approved for the next 20 years.

[Undertoad]

How many hp per liter displacement?