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08-07-2010, 02:42 PM
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#1 |
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Snowflake
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Dystopia
Posts: 13,136
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The Grapes Must Suffer.
I don't know if this was known by the contemporaries of Jesus or Buddha, or the men who amassed the writing attributed to these figures, but I think it would have been quite an apt parable for their teachings that the grapes on the vine must suffer (in poor soil) in order to produce complex flavors.
As I thought of this, I thought of those whose great suffering produces great products of beauty. Here is a video of a man who slowly killed himself, with drugs. Along the way, he was able to do things such as this performance. This vocal performance gives me chills every time I listen to it. It may not be your cup of tea, but I believe that this is real emotion. He makes me feel it. To me, that qualifies this as artistic achievement on a high level. The following may not be the kind of lesson we would be comfortable teaching our children, but I propose that those who have plumbed the depths of suffering are able to communicate a deep level of human feeling that even those among us who may only be (currently) experiencing minor emotional discomfort are able to identify with. I believe that some artists of American "Blues" music found this to be a necessary condition. It strikes me that Jesus and Buddha may have agreed with them, and this is an attractive idea to me. Maybe I've suffered too much in my life, and developoed some strange coping mechanisms. Must the grapes on the vine suffer, in order to produce complex flavors? Is this the opposite of sour grapes, i.e. since you expect the grapes to be sour, you tell yourself you like them that way? Or, is this what the great teachers were talking about?
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****************** There's a level of facility that everyone needs to accomplish, and from there it's a matter of deciding for yourself how important ultra-facility is to your expression. ... I found, like Joseph Campbell said, if you just follow whatever gives you a little joy or excitement or awe, then you're on the right track. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Terry Bozzio |
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08-07-2010, 03:29 PM
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#2 |
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I can hear my ears
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 25,571
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additionally, grapes is a euphemism for the male gonads. I don't want mine to suffer any more than is absolutely necessary. But I agree, Flint.. Big Pain forces you to shut down and release your identification with your thinking mind. This makes way for true creativity to come to the front.
I heard Adam from Counting Crows say he can only write good music when he is depressed or heartbroken in his interview w/ Howard Stern.
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This body holding me reminds me of my own mortality Embrace this moment, remember We are eternal, all this pain is an illusion ~MJKeenan |
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08-07-2010, 05:51 PM
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#3 |
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Looking forward to open mic night.
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: New Mexico
Posts: 5,148
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That's exactly who I just thought of (Counting Crowes)! I heard a song by them last night and was quickly reminded of how soulful and fantastic they are.
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Show me a sane man, and I will cure him for you.- Carl Jung 
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08-07-2010, 10:20 PM
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#4 |
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King Of Wishful Thinking
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: Philadelphia Suburbs
Posts: 6,669
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It's not just music. One of my favorite comedians was Richard Jeni who committed suicide a few years back.
Go down a list of funny men and women and you will find suicide, overdose, and various addictions. Is comedic talent a well developed coping mechanism for depressed individuals that eventually breaks down? Are celebrity comedians only as screwed up as other celebrities?
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Exercise your rights and remember your obligations - VOTE!I have always believed that hope is that stubborn thing inside us that insists, despite all the evidence to the contrary, that something better awaits us so long as we have the courage to keep reaching, to keep working, to keep fighting. -- Barack Hussein Obama |
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08-08-2010, 07:38 AM
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#5 | |
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™
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Arlington, VA
Posts: 27,717
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08-07-2010, 10:55 PM
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#6 | |
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Snowflake
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Dystopia
Posts: 13,136
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Quote:
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****************** There's a level of facility that everyone needs to accomplish, and from there it's a matter of deciding for yourself how important ultra-facility is to your expression. ... I found, like Joseph Campbell said, if you just follow whatever gives you a little joy or excitement or awe, then you're on the right track. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Terry Bozzio |
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08-08-2010, 06:00 AM
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#7 |
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The Un-Tuckian
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: South Central...KY that is
Posts: 39,517
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Apparently, at some point, I'm going to be an amazingly successful artist.
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 These statements have not been evaluated by the FDA, EPA, FBI, DEA, CDC, or FDIC. These statements are not intended to diagnose, cause, treat, cure, or prevent any disease. If you feel you have been harmed/offended by, or, disagree with any of the above statements or images, please feel free to fuck right off. |
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08-08-2010, 05:27 PM
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#8 | |
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Slattern of the Swail
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 15,654
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Quote:
What do you do if you suffer and you're a shitty artist? Or it's all for naught? Or what? What if you really fookin' suffer and you end up being the Diet Coke of art? not everyone is Poe or Plath or Woolf.
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In Barrie's play and novel, the roles of fairies are brief: they are allies to the Lost Boys, the source of fairy dust and ...They are portrayed as dangerous, whimsical and extremely clever but quite hedonistic. "Shall I give you a kiss?" Peter asked and, jerking an acorn button off his coat, solemnly presented it to her. —James Barrie Wimminfolk they be tricksy. - ZenGum |
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08-08-2010, 06:33 PM
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#9 |
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The future is unwritten
Join Date: Oct 2002
Posts: 71,105
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But too many believe they are not, only because they've not suffered enough. They believe when they've suffered enough they'll have an epiphany, suddenly the path to success and recognition will be clear.
Better than admitting they have no talent, I guess.
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The descent of man ~ Nixon, Friedman, Reagan, Trump. |
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08-09-2010, 03:21 AM
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#10 | |
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The Un-Tuckian
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: South Central...KY that is
Posts: 39,517
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Quote:
__________________
These statements have not been evaluated by the FDA, EPA, FBI, DEA, CDC, or FDIC. These statements are not intended to diagnose, cause, treat, cure, or prevent any disease. If you feel you have been harmed/offended by, or, disagree with any of the above statements or images, please feel free to fuck right off. |
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08-10-2010, 02:27 AM
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#11 | |
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Professor
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 1,622
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08-08-2010, 09:01 PM
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#12 |
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Slattern of the Swail
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 15,654
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Andy Warhol comes to mind.
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In Barrie's play and novel, the roles of fairies are brief: they are allies to the Lost Boys, the source of fairy dust and ...They are portrayed as dangerous, whimsical and extremely clever but quite hedonistic. "Shall I give you a kiss?" Peter asked and, jerking an acorn button off his coat, solemnly presented it to her. —James Barrie Wimminfolk they be tricksy. - ZenGum |
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08-09-2010, 10:44 PM
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#14 |
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Person who doesn't update the user title
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Southern California
Posts: 6,674
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I can remember when Woody Allen was funny.
------------- Mile-to-school-through-the-snow-barefoot UG |
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08-10-2010, 09:10 AM
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#15 | |
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Why, you're a regular Alfred E Einstein, ain't ya?
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 21,206
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My grammy never gave gifts. She was too busy getting raped by Cossacks. Allan: What are you doing Saturday night? Museum Girl: Committing suicide. Allan: What about Friday night? High Macha Of Rashpur: It is written, "he who makes the best egg salad shall rule over heaven and earth." Don't ask me why egg salad - I've got enough aggravation. I think people should mate for life, like pigeons or Catholics. The government is unresponsive to the needs of the little man. Under 5'7", it is impossible to get your congressman on the phone. Yeah, it's no Adam Sandler, but it's good stuff.  classic prolly hates jews, too
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A word to the wise ain't necessary - it's the stupid ones who need the advice. --Bill Cosby Last edited by Shawnee123; 08-10-2010 at 09:17 AM. |
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