Anyone use TiVo?

vsp · 05-07-2003, 10:20 AM

I have heard one too many people rave about TiVo, and my curiosity's been raised.

The gist of what I know: it's essentially a combination of a hard-drive VCR and a program guide, that's smart enough to follow program time/channel changes and adjust record settings accordingly. You buy the box, then pay a fee per month. You can record from the TiVo to a VCR if you want to archive beyond the TiVo's storage capability. It'll work with basic cable. It uses the phone line late at night to download program data.

Anything I should know that I'm missing? Anyone own one and want to rave or rant?

05-07-2003, 10:41 AM

We moved from ReplayTV to TiVo after Sonicblue bit the big one.

I personally don't use it; my dad is the fanatic, and he will rave about it as long as someone will listen.

The added bonuses you're missing are that you can pause "live" TV, so you can go take a dump or whatever, and that you can effectively skip commercials by watching recorded stuff a few minutes late (i.e., start watching the Simpsons at 7:10 but rewind the recorded TV to 7:00 - it keeps on recording, so each time a commercial break comes on, you just skip past it. By the end of the show, you're caught up to real time and you haven't watched annoying commercials). ReplayTV flaunted its commercial skip feature; TiVo's has to be unlocked, but basically, you hit a button and it skips 30 seconds ahead. Pretty snazzy overall.

Undertoad · 05-07-2003, 10:48 AM

I have it, and it's just as addictive as they say.

Unfortunately the first unit's hard drive died after 6 months and I had to send it back and get another.

As a consumer unit, the hard drive is the weak link in the chain for TiVo. There aren't too many VCR-like devices that have a 50% chance of dying in the first five years of its life, but that's what hard drives do. Hard drives are rated by MTBF, "Mean Time Between Failure", the point at which half the drives will develop some kind of problem.

Since the TiVo is effectively using its hard drive ALL THE TIME, whether you want it to or not (it's constantly caching video for its live TV buffer), you can expect that MTBF number to be accurate; if you're buying a TiVo, you should EXPECT it to fail at some point.

It is, in fact, a Linux system. It's a computer, and computers go bad.

But the good news is that since it's a computer, there is a remarkable community of geeks ready to help get the most out of that box. To me, this more than makes up for the possible problems that develop.

Via that community, people have put together a step-by-step guide to managing your TiVo hard drive; and with the help of that guide, last week I changed our 60-hour TiVo into a 137-hour TiVo by swapping out the hard drive for a new, bigger one.

SteveDallas · 05-07-2003, 11:23 AM

Damn straight. Mine came with a 40GB drive and I added an 80GB to the second drive bay. At the same time I made an image of the original drive so if (when) I do have a crash I can restore that image to a fresh drive. The info is all on the web. The one thing I screwed up is that I didn't plug in the cooling fan. Within about 5 hours it had shut itself down and was displaying a temperature warning. All in all, a pretty clever box.

Other features: You can search the guide and save searches. For example: I can ask it to find every show in which Emma Thompson appears. If I feel like it, I can have it automatically record those shows. Ditto for keywords--I'm not watching TV much these days, but for a while I had a keyword search for "EGYPT*". It not only picked up archaeology documentaries from PBS and The History Channel, but also Liz Taylor in Cleopatra, Abbott and Costello vs. The Mummy, etc. The guide information isn't perfect, but it's pretty complete--I've had it pick up shows for particular actors when the only thing that person had was a 15-second guest spot as Third Extra From The Left.

As you can imagine, using this sort of setup for a while really tends to erode your loyalty to particular channels!

Oh, one more thing I should say: if you are at all interested in satellite TV, you should look at combined units. You can currently get a combo Tivo/DirecTV receiver. (Dish Network, the other big satellite company, makes its own personal video recorder products; some people like them, some don't.) This is what I have. It has two tuners, which means I can watch a show I've already recorded while the box records 2 different shows at once! But the thing about a combo system is, one of the most expensive components of a Tivo or other PVR is the MPEG encoding chip. With DirecTV or Dish Network, all the content is MPEG-encoded at the headend before it's piped out to the satellites. So a combination PVR/satellite box needs no MPEG encoder, and is paradoxically cheaper than a standalone Tivo.

perth · 05-07-2003, 11:32 AM

Quote:

Ditto for keywords--I'm not watching TV much these days, but for a while I had a keyword search for "EGYPT*". It not only picked up archaeology documentaries from PBS and The History Channel, but also Liz Taylor in Cleopatra, Abbott and Costello vs. The Mummy, etc.

that right there sold me about 95% on getting one. we are finally getting cable this weekend, and i think im gonna need one of these. any suggestions on where/what to buy?

~james

That Guy · 05-07-2003, 12:13 PM

How well does it work if you have DSS (namely Dish Network)? Anyone have experience there?

05-07-2003, 12:43 PM

After the fire (which destroyed the ReplayTV box he had), my dad got the DirecTiVo box from Hughes and has been extremely happy with it.

(Just a "me too" to SD's post.)

SteveDallas · 05-07-2003, 05:55 PM

perth, the usual culprits are Best Buy and Circuit City. I'd start there and then check tivocommunity.com for the lowdown on the current Internet deals. (I got my DirecTivo unit for $19.95 shipping, including the dish.)

That Guy, I couldn't tell you. I was using the Dishplayer from Dish Net before I got fed up with all the unfixed bugs and toks the DirecTV plunge. If you're specifically set on a Tivo I'd check out tivocommunity.com also and see what Dish customers' experiences are. But you will spend a lot less money if you get a Dish Network PVR-integrated received, so you may want to see how those stack up feature-wise. The Tivo has been around longer and was providing a good customer experience while the Dishplayer was a bug-ridden piece of garbage.... but Dish customers with newer Dish PVR models seem happy with them. (See dbsforums.com for discussion.)

Undertoad · 05-07-2003, 06:56 PM

Got mine directly from tivo.com.

tivocommunity.com has been down for many days now. Quite annoying.

xoxoxoBruce · 05-07-2003, 06:58 PM

My brother gave me a TiVo for Christmas. I read the instructions and gave it back. I just couldn't get comfortable with this company having my name, address, bank account number, phone number, a complete profile on my viewing habits and interaction with my cable company.
My brother kept it and is now getting mail and phone sales solicitations based on the shows he watches. His cable company has also tried to sell him extras based on his viewing habits. With the system he has they have no way of knowing what he watches so they must have got it from TiVo.
I'm sure many people don't care who knows what, but I do. :p

perth · 05-07-2003, 07:13 PM

do you *have* to subscribe? i seem to remember reading that it works without subscription, but you have to manually schedule recording.

on the other hand, i doubt that keyword feature works without a subscription. how much does a subscription cost?

~james

Undertoad · 05-07-2003, 07:42 PM

It's true, you don't have to subscribe. Subscription is $12.95 per month; there's also a "lifetime of the unit" plan, but that's the wrong choice for almost everyone.

The quality of the system is in its user interface, including the remote. The user interface is just outstanding. When I introduce the TiVo to new people, I merely hand them the remote and tell them to start with the big top button. From that starting point, they can intuitively learn and understand the whole thing in about five minutes.

The software would not be as great without the live program data backing it up. It would be nice if they were to open the interface so that competitors could offer program data. That won't matter when, in about three years, the price of all the hardware components of the TiVo is about $100 and open source software to operate it matures.

SteveDallas · 05-07-2003, 07:48 PM

That's funny, I've never gotten any solicitation that seems based on Tivo watching. Or maybe they couldn't figure out anything to sell to someboy who watches Egyptian archaeology documentaries, indie films, Taildaters, standup comedy, and Daria. (Not to mention all the stuff my wife and kids watch.) I get far more junk mail as a result of having bought Philadelphia Orchestra tickets.

For that matter I've gotten damned little phone solicitation of ANY kind whatsoever since the PA "don't call" list was instituted. I'm kind of shocked that it worked.

Anyway DirecTV charges $4.95 for PVR service if you have the DirecTivo. The standard Tivo is $12 per month I believe. You might be able to pause, rewind, and fast-forward the current show without a subscription, but that's it, and you may not even be able to do that.

Undertoad · 05-07-2003, 08:38 PM

Bruce, I skip about 30 minutes of commercials a day. They can spam my mailbox with as much kindling as they desire and it would still be an awesome trade.

(But I haven't noticed any additional mail from anyone, and I agree that the PA no-call list has been perfect.)

xoxoxoBruce · 05-07-2003, 09:14 PM

I don't watch much TV because I'm so busy reading the wealth of logic and reason the Cellarites spew.
My brother lives in MA and they don't have the anti-call thing going. Shame too 'cause it sure works well here.

05-07-2003, 10:20 AM	#1
vsp Syndrome of a Down Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: West Chester Posts: 1,367	Anyone use TiVo? I have heard one too many people rave about TiVo, and my curiosity's been raised. The gist of what I know: it's essentially a combination of a hard-drive VCR and a program guide, that's smart enough to follow program time/channel changes and adjust record settings accordingly. You buy the box, then pay a fee per month. You can record from the TiVo to a VCR if you want to archive beyond the TiVo's storage capability. It'll work with basic cable. It uses the phone line late at night to download program data. Anything I should know that I'm missing? Anyone own one and want to rave or rant?

05-07-2003, 06:58 PM	#10
xoxoxoBruce The future is unwritten Join Date: Oct 2002 Posts: 71,105	My brother gave me a TiVo for Christmas. I read the instructions and gave it back. I just couldn't get comfortable with this company having my name, address, bank account number, phone number, a complete profile on my viewing habits and interaction with my cable company. My brother kept it and is now getting mail and phone sales solicitations based on the shows he watches. His cable company has also tried to sell him extras based on his viewing habits. With the system he has they have no way of knowing what he watches so they must have got it from TiVo. I'm sure many people don't care who knows what, but I do. :p __________________ The descent of man ~ Nixon, Friedman, Reagan, Trump.

05-07-2003, 09:14 PM	#15
xoxoxoBruce The future is unwritten Join Date: Oct 2002 Posts: 71,105	I don't watch much TV because I'm so busy reading the wealth of logic and reason the Cellarites spew. My brother lives in MA and they don't have the anti-call thing going. Shame too 'cause it sure works well here. __________________ The descent of man ~ Nixon, Friedman, Reagan, Trump.

05-07-2003, 10:41 AM	#2
dave Guest Posts: n/a	We moved from ReplayTV to TiVo after Sonicblue bit the big one. I personally don't use it; my dad is the fanatic, and he will rave about it as long as someone will listen. The added bonuses you're missing are that you can pause "live" TV, so you can go take a dump or whatever, and that you can effectively skip commercials by watching recorded stuff a few minutes late (i.e., start watching the Simpsons at 7:10 but rewind the recorded TV to 7:00 - it keeps on recording, so each time a commercial break comes on, you just skip past it. By the end of the show, you're caught up to real time and you haven't watched annoying commercials). ReplayTV flaunted its commercial skip feature; TiVo's has to be unlocked, but basically, you hit a button and it skips 30 seconds ahead. Pretty snazzy overall.

05-07-2003, 10:48 AM	#3
Undertoad Radical Centrist Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Cottage of Prussia Posts: 31,423	I have it, and it's just as addictive as they say. Unfortunately the first unit's hard drive died after 6 months and I had to send it back and get another. As a consumer unit, the hard drive is the weak link in the chain for TiVo. There aren't too many VCR-like devices that have a 50% chance of dying in the first five years of its life, but that's what hard drives do. Hard drives are rated by MTBF, "Mean Time Between Failure", the point at which half the drives will develop some kind of problem. Since the TiVo is effectively using its hard drive ALL THE TIME, whether you want it to or not (it's constantly caching video for its live TV buffer), you can expect that MTBF number to be accurate; if you're buying a TiVo, you should EXPECT it to fail at some point. It is, in fact, a Linux system. It's a computer, and computers go bad. But the good news is that since it's a computer, there is a remarkable community of geeks ready to help get the most out of that box. To me, this more than makes up for the possible problems that develop. Via that community, people have put together a step-by-step guide to managing your TiVo hard drive; and with the help of that guide, last week I changed our 60-hour TiVo into a 137-hour TiVo by swapping out the hard drive for a new, bigger one.

05-07-2003, 11:23 AM	#4
SteveDallas Your Bartender Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Philly Burbs, PA Posts: 7,651	Damn straight. Mine came with a 40GB drive and I added an 80GB to the second drive bay. At the same time I made an image of the original drive so if (when) I do have a crash I can restore that image to a fresh drive. The info is all on the web. The one thing I screwed up is that I didn't plug in the cooling fan. Within about 5 hours it had shut itself down and was displaying a temperature warning. All in all, a pretty clever box. Other features: You can search the guide and save searches. For example: I can ask it to find every show in which Emma Thompson appears. If I feel like it, I can have it automatically record those shows. Ditto for keywords--I'm not watching TV much these days, but for a while I had a keyword search for "EGYPT*". It not only picked up archaeology documentaries from PBS and The History Channel, but also Liz Taylor in Cleopatra, Abbott and Costello vs. The Mummy, etc. The guide information isn't perfect, but it's pretty complete--I've had it pick up shows for particular actors when the only thing that person had was a 15-second guest spot as Third Extra From The Left. As you can imagine, using this sort of setup for a while really tends to erode your loyalty to particular channels! Oh, one more thing I should say: if you are at all interested in satellite TV, you should look at combined units. You can currently get a combo Tivo/DirecTV receiver. (Dish Network, the other big satellite company, makes its own personal video recorder products; some people like them, some don't.) This is what I have. It has two tuners, which means I can watch a show I've already recorded while the box records 2 different shows at once! But the thing about a combo system is, one of the most expensive components of a Tivo or other PVR is the MPEG encoding chip. With DirecTV or Dish Network, all the content is MPEG-encoded at the headend before it's piped out to the satellites. So a combination PVR/satellite box needs no MPEG encoder, and is paradoxically cheaper than a standalone Tivo.

05-07-2003, 12:13 PM	#6
That Guy He who reads, sometimes writes. Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: at the keyboard Posts: 791	How well does it work if you have DSS (namely Dish Network)? Anyone have experience there?

05-07-2003, 12:43 PM	#7
dave Guest Posts: n/a	After the fire (which destroyed the ReplayTV box he had), my dad got the DirecTiVo box from Hughes and has been extremely happy with it. (Just a "me too" to SD's post.)

05-07-2003, 05:55 PM	#8
SteveDallas Your Bartender Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Philly Burbs, PA Posts: 7,651	perth, the usual culprits are Best Buy and Circuit City. I'd start there and then check tivocommunity.com for the lowdown on the current Internet deals. (I got my DirecTivo unit for $19.95 shipping, including the dish.) That Guy, I couldn't tell you. I was using the Dishplayer from Dish Net before I got fed up with all the unfixed bugs and toks the DirecTV plunge. If you're specifically set on a Tivo I'd check out tivocommunity.com also and see what Dish customers' experiences are. But you will spend a lot less money if you get a Dish Network PVR-integrated received, so you may want to see how those stack up feature-wise. The Tivo has been around longer and was providing a good customer experience while the Dishplayer was a bug-ridden piece of garbage.... but Dish customers with newer Dish PVR models seem happy with them. (See dbsforums.com for discussion.)

05-07-2003, 06:56 PM	#9
Undertoad Radical Centrist Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Cottage of Prussia Posts: 31,423	Got mine directly from tivo.com. tivocommunity.com has been down for many days now. Quite annoying.

05-07-2003, 07:13 PM	#11
perth Strong Silent Type Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Fort Collins, CO Posts: 1,949	do you have to subscribe? i seem to remember reading that it works without subscription, but you have to manually schedule recording. on the other hand, i doubt that keyword feature works without a subscription. how much does a subscription cost? ~james

05-07-2003, 07:42 PM	#12
Undertoad Radical Centrist Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Cottage of Prussia Posts: 31,423	It's true, you don't have to subscribe. Subscription is $12.95 per month; there's also a "lifetime of the unit" plan, but that's the wrong choice for almost everyone. The quality of the system is in its user interface, including the remote. The user interface is just outstanding. When I introduce the TiVo to new people, I merely hand them the remote and tell them to start with the big top button. From that starting point, they can intuitively learn and understand the whole thing in about five minutes. The software would not be as great without the live program data backing it up. It would be nice if they were to open the interface so that competitors could offer program data. That won't matter when, in about three years, the price of all the hardware components of the TiVo is about $100 and open source software to operate it matures.

05-07-2003, 07:48 PM	#13
SteveDallas Your Bartender Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Philly Burbs, PA Posts: 7,651	That's funny, I've never gotten any solicitation that seems based on Tivo watching. Or maybe they couldn't figure out anything to sell to someboy who watches Egyptian archaeology documentaries, indie films, Taildaters, standup comedy, and Daria. (Not to mention all the stuff my wife and kids watch.) I get far more junk mail as a result of having bought Philadelphia Orchestra tickets. For that matter I've gotten damned little phone solicitation of ANY kind whatsoever since the PA "don't call" list was instituted. I'm kind of shocked that it worked. Anyway DirecTV charges $4.95 for PVR service if you have the DirecTivo. The standard Tivo is $12 per month I believe. You might be able to pause, rewind, and fast-forward the current show without a subscription, but that's it, and you may not even be able to do that.

05-07-2003, 08:38 PM	#14
Undertoad Radical Centrist Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Cottage of Prussia Posts: 31,423	Bruce, I skip about 30 minutes of commercials a day. They can spam my mailbox with as much kindling as they desire and it would still be an awesome trade. (But I haven't noticed any additional mail from anyone, and I agree that the PA no-call list has been perfect.)

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