Arguments: men vs. women

Riddil · 01-08-2004, 10:55 AM

Hey hey! Ok, this isn't nearly as long and definitely not as controversial as my other post.

Between my guy-friends it's a pretty common consensus that when in an argument with your girlfriend/wife it always ends the same way... with the guy thinking, "It seems everything I said just made her angrier. WTH am I supposed to say??"

And I've come up with a theory!! One common criticism men get is that we try to "fix everything". I think that it's the same behavior that causes the problems in an argument. Men don't care how something is fixed, as long as it's fixed. But for a woman each step along the way can mean something. So while a man is only trying to resolve the root level problem, he'll just start spouting out ideas for resolution. Which has two problems: 1) it normally doesn't find the CAUSE of the problem, and 2) each proposal has a chance of creating another problem.

Here's an example of a typical argument, and then an example for how it should have gone:

Man: When we go to the movies tonight I think you should change out of those old jeans.
Woman: But these are my favorite jeans.
Man: I know, but the rip on the backside makes you look trashy.
Woman: What? You're saying I look trashy? (This is a fake question, she's only prodding to find the reason he wants her to change).
Man: No, no! Not at all. They just don't look nice, is all. I mean, they're too tight anyhow. They make your stomache poke out.
Woman: Oooo! So now it comes out!! You think I'm fat?! (Said because for the past week she's been concerned she might be gaining weight, and people might notice).

And the end result is the man getting in hot water, and the woman feeling more self-conscious. *ahem* It could have gone better.

Man: I feel uncomfortable when you wear those jeans in public. They're so tight I feel like every man is looking at you in a sexual way, and it makes me uncomfortable.

And stop! Just stick to the root problem, and don't try to solve the whole thing yourself! If she comes up with possible ideas, support them and give input, but let her know that it's ultimately her decision in the end. (Which is only partially true... if it was her totally her decision she'd just wear the jeans. But since she cares about your feelings she'll work to find a solution you can both live with).

If it only bothers you a little bit, then if she ends up deciding to wear the jeans anyhow then *shrug* no big deal. But if you let her know that it's a BIG deal for you, then I hope your partner would be willing to change pants. And now that she knows how you feel, she'll be more aware in the future.

Of course this kind of thing won't work in preventing all arguments, but I think as a rule of thumb it's the best way to make sure that you stay focused on the root problem, don't add more problems, find a solution you're both happy with, and more than likely fix the reason you had a problem in the first place.

Thoughts?

Happy Monkey · 01-08-2004, 11:38 AM

More Examples

SteveDallas · 01-08-2004, 11:58 AM

Well your best bet, IMO, is to not engage the subject at all. Criticism of a woman's attire is bound to end badly. I would simply assume that as an adult she knows what she's wearing and if it looks trampy, it's probably because she MEANT to look trampy. My meddling would accomplish little, if anything positive.

Riddil · 01-08-2004, 02:58 PM

^^^ Wise words from a perfectly trained male.

be-bop · 01-08-2004, 03:10 PM

Originally posted by Riddil
Wise words from a perfectly trained male.

Women don't fight fair in arguments they start with such loaded questions.
IE."Does my bum look big in this"?
Reply"Compared to what"? (Then Run)

Or my all time favourite "Well if you don't know whats wrong I'm not telling you".

xoxoxoBruce · 01-08-2004, 06:01 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Riddil

Man: When we go to the movies tonight I think you should change out of those old jeans.
Woman: But these are my favorite jeans.
Man: I know, but the rip on the backside makes you look trashy.
Woman: What? You're saying I look trashy? (This is a fake question, she's only prodding to find the reason he wants her to change).
Man: Yes, that's what I said. That's what I meant.

Why do you have to look for hidden meanings? Why does there have to be an ulterior motive. Why can't I mean exactly what I say?

warch · 01-08-2004, 06:24 PM

Hold on buccaroos.

So he tells her she should change her pants because they make her look "trashy"... they are too tight and her stomach pokes out. (these are insults to anyone) Then, what he really means is "I'm uncomfortable when other men look at you in a sexual way", and she's the one shrouded in mysterious meanings? Sheesh.

SteveDallas · 01-08-2004, 06:36 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by warch
Hold on buccaroos.

So he tells her she should change her pants because they make her look "trashy"... they are too tight and her stomach pokes out. (these are insults to anyone) Then, what he really means is "I'm uncomfortable when other men look at you in a sexual way", and she's the one shrouded in mysterious meanings? Sheesh.

Meanwhile, he's scoping out chicks in tight jeans!

OnyxCougar · 01-08-2004, 07:27 PM

What warch said.

Also, there are very very VERY very few men in the United States who will say:

Man: I feel uncomfortable when you wear those jeans in public. They're so tight I feel like every man is looking at you in a sexual way, and it makes me uncomfortable.

OK, maybe Alan Alda or Phil Donahue, but everyone makes fun of them because they WOULD say that. I wonder why that is?

In my house it would go something like:

S: "Hey.... you gonna wear those?"
OC: "They're on my ass, aren't they?"
S: "Barely. You been playin in the paint?"
OC: "What are you trying to say?"
S: "Camel toe."
OC: "I'll go change."

xoxoxoBruce · 01-08-2004, 10:16 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by warch
Hold on buccaroos.

So he tells her she should change her pants because they make her look "trashy"... they are too tight and her stomach pokes out. (these are insults to anyone) Then, what he really means is "I'm uncomfortable when other men look at you in a sexual way", and she's the one shrouded in mysterious meanings? Sheesh.

Bullshit! In this stupid hypothetical conversation she's insulted because he tells her the truth? She looks trashy.

Quote:

(This is a fake question, she's only prodding to find the reason he wants her to change).

WHY!?!? Why can't it be because he thinks she looks trashy? If you take it as an insult instead of a honest opinion then you need to grow up and dump some of that emotional baggage you're carrying.
The rest of the conversation is ludicrous. He's backpedaling to avoid pissing her off because she has some kind of hangup about not believing his motivations and she's increasingly insulted by his clumsy attempts to salve her ego.
It's a bad sitcom. These two shouldn't even be allowed to know each other.

Riddil · 01-09-2004, 09:09 AM

Nono, I agree that those things are insults... when said to a woman. But to a man he didn't mean anything by it at all. He doesn't think that his girl *is* trashy. Odds are he honestly doesn't think that she even looks trashy. So why did he say it?

Men don't like talking about their feelings. Hell, most of the time guys don't even think about their feelings. He felt a pang of jealousy at the thought of other men looking at her, and so he disapproved of the pants. And then he tried to formulate a way to get her to change britches. He saw the "trashy" comment as an innocent way to get her to change. (even though to her it's an insult)

Buuut, when he said it, the woman wants to know WHY. So she attacks back. The guy senses he's in trouble, so he just starts pulling for threads to get him out of trouble... "uh... stomache pokes out". He said it because it's TRUE. But to a woman she doesn't care if it's true or not, she probably knows it too, she just doesn't want you to tell her about it. And now an argument ensues.

If the guy would have just stepped back and asked himself, "Why do I want her to change those pants?", and then tell her that, the whole mess could have been avoided.

If the answer to that quesion is, "B/c it makes me jealous", then say that. If the answer really is only, "B/c you look trashy", then say that.

It's all about being able to state the real problem, and not just toss out a quick-fix comment.

warch · 01-09-2004, 01:47 PM

And...change your own fucking pants,asshole.

xoxoxoBruce · 01-09-2004, 10:12 PM

Quote:

Man: I feel uncomfortable when you wear those jeans in public. They're so tight I feel like every man is looking at you in a sexual way, and it makes me uncomfortable.

Come on! That line is so ridiculous it could only come from a guy that was so insecure he wouldn't have opened his mouth in the first place. It's clearly the effect and not the cause of this scenerio.
I'll change my damn pants when they're dirty. I've only been wearing them 8 days.:p

staceyv · 01-12-2004, 08:39 AM

to all guys: you could prevent the argument in the first place if you just took the time to think through what you were going to say, and say it in a non-offensive manner. there are two ways to say everything. your first try which was basically telling her that she looked trashy and her pants were too tight was AWFUL. the second try, where you said that you didn't want her wearing the pants because they look too good on her and men stare was really good- it was a compliment to her. it's all about HOW you ask for it, not what you're asking for. you could get any message in the world across to her without creating an argument if you just worded it right.

Undertoad · 01-12-2004, 09:10 AM

OK, I'll try

"You're not going anywhere in those pants. When you wear trashy clothes like that it revs me up like nothin' else. So off with 'em, and I'm jumping your bones right here and now."

Howzat?

01-08-2004, 10:55 AM	#1
Riddil Management Consultant Join Date: Aug 2002 Posts: 165	Arguments: men vs. women Hey hey! Ok, this isn't nearly as long and definitely not as controversial as my other post. Between my guy-friends it's a pretty common consensus that when in an argument with your girlfriend/wife it always ends the same way... with the guy thinking, "It seems everything I said just made her angrier. WTH am I supposed to say??" And I've come up with a theory!! One common criticism men get is that we try to "fix everything". I think that it's the same behavior that causes the problems in an argument. Men don't care how something is fixed, as long as it's fixed. But for a woman each step along the way can mean something. So while a man is only trying to resolve the root level problem, he'll just start spouting out ideas for resolution. Which has two problems: 1) it normally doesn't find the CAUSE of the problem, and 2) each proposal has a chance of creating another problem. Here's an example of a typical argument, and then an example for how it should have gone: Man: When we go to the movies tonight I think you should change out of those old jeans. Woman: But these are my favorite jeans. Man: I know, but the rip on the backside makes you look trashy. Woman: What? You're saying I look trashy? (This is a fake question, she's only prodding to find the reason he wants her to change). Man: No, no! Not at all. They just don't look nice, is all. I mean, they're too tight anyhow. They make your stomache poke out. Woman: Oooo! So now it comes out!! You think I'm fat?! (Said because for the past week she's been concerned she might be gaining weight, and people might notice). And the end result is the man getting in hot water, and the woman feeling more self-conscious. ahem It could have gone better. Man: I feel uncomfortable when you wear those jeans in public. They're so tight I feel like every man is looking at you in a sexual way, and it makes me uncomfortable. And stop! Just stick to the root problem, and don't try to solve the whole thing yourself! If she comes up with possible ideas, support them and give input, but let her know that it's ultimately her decision in the end. (Which is only partially true... if it was her totally her decision she'd just wear the jeans. But since she cares about your feelings she'll work to find a solution you can both live with). If it only bothers you a little bit, then if she ends up deciding to wear the jeans anyhow then shrug no big deal. But if you let her know that it's a BIG deal for you, then I hope your partner would be willing to change pants. And now that she knows how you feel, she'll be more aware in the future. Of course this kind of thing won't work in preventing all arguments, but I think as a rule of thumb it's the best way to make sure that you stay focused on the root problem, don't add more problems, find a solution you're both happy with, and more than likely fix the reason you had a problem in the first place. Thoughts?

01-08-2004, 11:38 AM	#2
Happy Monkey I think this line's mostly filler. Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: DC Posts: 13,575	More Examples __________________ _________________ \|...............\| We live in the nick of times. \| Len 17, Wid 3 \| \|_______________\| [pics]

01-08-2004, 03:10 PM	#5
be-bop Operations Operative Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: scotland/uk Posts: 664	Men vs Women Originally posted by Riddil Wise words from a perfectly trained male. Women don't fight fair in arguments they start with such loaded questions. IE."Does my bum look big in this"? Reply"Compared to what"? (Then Run) Or my all time favourite "Well if you don't know whats wrong I'm not telling you".

01-08-2004, 11:58 AM	#3
SteveDallas Your Bartender Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Philly Burbs, PA Posts: 7,651	Well your best bet, IMO, is to not engage the subject at all. Criticism of a woman's attire is bound to end badly. I would simply assume that as an adult she knows what she's wearing and if it looks trampy, it's probably because she MEANT to look trampy. My meddling would accomplish little, if anything positive.

01-08-2004, 02:58 PM	#4
Riddil Management Consultant Join Date: Aug 2002 Posts: 165	^^^ Wise words from a perfectly trained male.

01-08-2004, 06:24 PM	#7
warch lurkin old school Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Minnesota Posts: 2,796	Hold on buccaroos. So he tells her she should change her pants because they make her look "trashy"... they are too tight and her stomach pokes out. (these are insults to anyone) Then, what he really means is "I'm uncomfortable when other men look at you in a sexual way", and she's the one shrouded in mysterious meanings? Sheesh.

01-08-2004, 07:27 PM	#9
OnyxCougar Junior Master Dwellar Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Kingdom of Atlantia Posts: 2,979	What warch said. Also, there are very very VERY very few men in the United States who will say: Man: I feel uncomfortable when you wear those jeans in public. They're so tight I feel like every man is looking at you in a sexual way, and it makes me uncomfortable. OK, maybe Alan Alda or Phil Donahue, but everyone makes fun of them because they WOULD say that. I wonder why that is? In my house it would go something like: S: "Hey.... you gonna wear those?" OC: "They're on my ass, aren't they?" S: "Barely. You been playin in the paint?" OC: "What are you trying to say?" S: "Camel toe." OC: "I'll go change."

01-09-2004, 09:09 AM	#11
Riddil Management Consultant Join Date: Aug 2002 Posts: 165	Nono, I agree that those things are insults... when said to a woman. But to a man he didn't mean anything by it at all. He doesn't think that his girl is trashy. Odds are he honestly doesn't think that she even looks trashy. So why did he say it? Men don't like talking about their feelings. Hell, most of the time guys don't even think about their feelings. He felt a pang of jealousy at the thought of other men looking at her, and so he disapproved of the pants. And then he tried to formulate a way to get her to change britches. He saw the "trashy" comment as an innocent way to get her to change. (even though to her it's an insult) Buuut, when he said it, the woman wants to know WHY. So she attacks back. The guy senses he's in trouble, so he just starts pulling for threads to get him out of trouble... "uh... stomache pokes out". He said it because it's TRUE. But to a woman she doesn't care if it's true or not, she probably knows it too, she just doesn't want you to tell her about it. And now an argument ensues. If the guy would have just stepped back and asked himself, "Why do I want her to change those pants?", and then tell her that, the whole mess could have been avoided. If the answer to that quesion is, "B/c it makes me jealous", then say that. If the answer really is only, "B/c you look trashy", then say that. It's all about being able to state the real problem, and not just toss out a quick-fix comment.

01-09-2004, 01:47 PM	#12
warch lurkin old school Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Minnesota Posts: 2,796	And...change your own fucking pants,asshole.

01-12-2004, 08:39 AM	#14
staceyv Lecturer Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Ohio Posts: 927	to all guys: you could prevent the argument in the first place if you just took the time to think through what you were going to say, and say it in a non-offensive manner. there are two ways to say everything. your first try which was basically telling her that she looked trashy and her pants were too tight was AWFUL. the second try, where you said that you didn't want her wearing the pants because they look too good on her and men stare was really good- it was a compliment to her. it's all about HOW you ask for it, not what you're asking for. you could get any message in the world across to her without creating an argument if you just worded it right.

01-12-2004, 09:10 AM	#15
Undertoad Radical Centrist Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Cottage of Prussia Posts: 31,423	OK, I'll try "You're not going anywhere in those pants. When you wear trashy clothes like that it revs me up like nothin' else. So off with 'em, and I'm jumping your bones right here and now." Howzat?

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