Dear Cellar - Page 2

lookout123 · 11-14-2007, 11:43 AM

HLJ,

1) although you only have the agreement with him always give people 2 referral choices thus removing the onus from you if the experience is not up to the client's expectations.
2) i would suggest that although you might make less money, ask for a flat referral fee rather than a production related fee. If clients find out you are paid more if the work takes longer they might incorrectly conclude that you are sending them to the guy who works slower just to pad your own pocket - credibility goes up in smoke.

3) i don't believe this is an ethical dilemma at all. If it works for you, then go for it. I personally choose to decline all referral fees and make that clear to my clients because i have found they appreciate that i have a choice but have chosen to only work for them. I work 100% referral myself and it has worked very well. i make very clear to clients that i don't accept pay for anything i do other than my practice - referrals, coaching, corporate HR consulting are all done out of good will. that discussion results in higher profits from increased referrals so it isn't like i'm a saint or anything.

11-14-2007, 02:00 PM

If you post a letter in here you may want to use the anonymous log-on.
Those like lookout, bruce, lj and others relish using anything you tell about yourself against you every chance they get.
http://cellar.org/showthread.php?t=15141

lookout123 · 11-14-2007, 02:02 PM

isn't youtube waiting for you? feckin' paranoid loser.

Rexmons · 11-14-2007, 02:09 PM

since when do business and ethics go together in the real world?

lookout123 · 11-14-2007, 02:34 PM

every single day if you choose to deal with ethical business people.

HungLikeJesus · 11-14-2007, 03:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rkzenrage

If you post a letter in here you may want to use the anonymous log-on.

rk - That's not a bad idea, even if people just use it for privacy reasons. Is there an existing guest or other generic logon?

Cicero · 11-14-2007, 05:50 PM

HLJ-
Talk to an accountant. Figure out which scenario is best on your wallet.

If you are really planning to do it...you need to find out what to claim and what not anyway. (and the resposibilty that falls on others in each scenario)

11-14-2007, 06:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lookout123

isn't youtube waiting for you? feckin' paranoid loser.

What is your issue with YT, I have not made a video in ages?
But then again, I am trying to apply logic to a stalker's thinking.

HungLikeJesus · 06-09-2008, 04:01 PM

Dear Cellar,
Mike, a friend of a friend, recently lost his job and has been doing some tree work for me. Mike has a job interview in a few days and I'm tempted to recommend to him that he cut his hair (he has a pony tail) for the interview, as I feel that it would increase his chances of getting hired.

I would appreciate your input on this. Would I be out of line to make that suggestion?

Thanks,
HLJ

lookout123 · 06-09-2008, 04:08 PM

A long time ago I worked for a friend of mine in a sales environment. I hit a serious slump where I couldn't sell anything to anyone. The ups just didn't stick. He suggested I shave my moustache and goatee to help me sell more. I laughed it off. A week later he said the same thing and I blew him off. A week later he sat me down and pointed out that my personality made me a natural for a certain niche we were hitting but my shaved head + facial hair was possibly turning off the same niche client. I was pissed off but gave in two days later. I went on a 6 month tear where I literally was the top salesperson in every category we measured there. Did shaving make me a better sales person? No. Did it make me more approachable for the prospective client? Apparently. Was I pissed at my friend? Only until I realized he was right.

Clodfobble · 06-09-2008, 04:21 PM

Back in the day, we all told my brother-in-law again and again and again to cut his hair if he wanted to get a real job. He denied that such a thing would really make a difference. He went to interview after interview, yet remained unemployed for somewhere between 6 months to a year. He finally cut his hair, and had a job offer one week later. (Unlike lookout, though, he remained pissed at us and the judgmental society we live in for a long while after that.)

Edit: As to your actual question, would it be appropriate for you to mention it to him... if he is a good friend and not just an acquaintance, I think it would be fine to mention it in a friendly manner. Do not expect him to listen, however, until you've told him at least a few more times. One way to bring it up might be to ask what sort of a job it is --> what sort of office environment is it --> oh, conservative you say? Hmm...

Shawnee123 · 06-09-2008, 04:27 PM

Most don't care about hair, but if he has a wacky name he may as well forget it!

smoothmoniker · 06-09-2008, 04:50 PM

Our realtor referred a mortgage broker. I'm sure the realtor got a kick-back. I hope he did! It was still our choice to go with that broker or not.

That broker presented us with several loan options. I'm certain that he will get a kick-back from whichever one we choose. I hope he does. It will still be our choice to use that loan, or to go hunting on our own to find a better loan.

The referral kick-back isn't the same thing as a bribe to a purchasing agent, where the payment is quid-pro-quo for securing a contract. Instead, the party making the payment is paying to jump to the front of the line, and be the first to make an offer to the client, who may or may not choose to use that service.

HungLikeJesus · 06-09-2008, 05:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shawnee123

Most don't care about hair, but if he has a wacky name he may as well forget it!

He has a very common last name: Hunt

HungLikeJesus · 06-09-2008, 05:57 PM

This was my approach:

Me: Mike, do you have to put a shirt and tie on for the interview?

Mike: No, I'll shave and put on a nice shirt, but no tie.

Me: How long have you had that pony tail?

Mike: Since the second grade.

Me: Ah, I see.

That was the end of it.

11-14-2007, 11:43 AM	#16
lookout123 changed his status to single Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Right behind you. No, the other side. Posts: 10,308	HLJ, 1) although you only have the agreement with him always give people 2 referral choices thus removing the onus from you if the experience is not up to the client's expectations. 2) i would suggest that although you might make less money, ask for a flat referral fee rather than a production related fee. If clients find out you are paid more if the work takes longer they might incorrectly conclude that you are sending them to the guy who works slower just to pad your own pocket - credibility goes up in smoke. 3) i don't believe this is an ethical dilemma at all. If it works for you, then go for it. I personally choose to decline all referral fees and make that clear to my clients because i have found they appreciate that i have a choice but have chosen to only work for them. I work 100% referral myself and it has worked very well. i make very clear to clients that i don't accept pay for anything i do other than my practice - referrals, coaching, corporate HR consulting are all done out of good will. that discussion results in higher profits from increased referrals so it isn't like i'm a saint or anything. __________________ Getting knocked down is no sin, it's not getting back up that's the sin

11-14-2007, 02:02 PM	#18
lookout123 changed his status to single Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Right behind you. No, the other side. Posts: 10,308	isn't youtube waiting for you? feckin' paranoid loser. __________________ Getting knocked down is no sin, it's not getting back up that's the sin

11-14-2007, 02:09 PM	#19
Rexmons - Kavkaz United - Join Date: May 2007 Posts: 613	since when do business and ethics go together in the real world? __________________ "Life's a bitch but God forbid the bitch divorce me..."

11-14-2007, 02:34 PM	#20
lookout123 changed his status to single Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Right behind you. No, the other side. Posts: 10,308	every single day if you choose to deal with ethical business people. __________________ Getting knocked down is no sin, it's not getting back up that's the sin

11-14-2007, 05:50 PM	#22
Cicero Looking forward to open mic night. Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: New Mexico Posts: 5,148	HLJ- Talk to an accountant. Figure out which scenario is best on your wallet. If you are really planning to do it...you need to find out what to claim and what not anyway. (and the resposibilty that falls on others in each scenario) __________________ Show me a sane man, and I will cure him for you.- Carl Jung

11-14-2007, 02:00 PM	#17
rkzenrage Guest Posts: n/a	If you post a letter in here you may want to use the anonymous log-on. Those like lookout, bruce, lj and others relish using anything you tell about yourself against you every chance they get. http://cellar.org/showthread.php?t=15141

06-09-2008, 04:01 PM	#24
HungLikeJesus Only looks like a disaster tourist Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: above 7,000 feet Posts: 7,208	Dear Cellar, Mike, a friend of a friend, recently lost his job and has been doing some tree work for me. Mike has a job interview in a few days and I'm tempted to recommend to him that he cut his hair (he has a pony tail) for the interview, as I feel that it would increase his chances of getting hired. I would appreciate your input on this. Would I be out of line to make that suggestion? Thanks, HLJ __________________ Keep Your Bodies Off My Lawn SteveDallas's Random Thread Picker.

06-09-2008, 04:08 PM	#25
lookout123 changed his status to single Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Right behind you. No, the other side. Posts: 10,308	A long time ago I worked for a friend of mine in a sales environment. I hit a serious slump where I couldn't sell anything to anyone. The ups just didn't stick. He suggested I shave my moustache and goatee to help me sell more. I laughed it off. A week later he said the same thing and I blew him off. A week later he sat me down and pointed out that my personality made me a natural for a certain niche we were hitting but my shaved head + facial hair was possibly turning off the same niche client. I was pissed off but gave in two days later. I went on a 6 month tear where I literally was the top salesperson in every category we measured there. Did shaving make me a better sales person? No. Did it make me more approachable for the prospective client? Apparently. Was I pissed at my friend? Only until I realized he was right. __________________ Getting knocked down is no sin, it's not getting back up that's the sin

06-09-2008, 04:21 PM	#26
Clodfobble UNDER CONDITIONAL MITIGATION Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Austin, TX Posts: 20,012	Back in the day, we all told my brother-in-law again and again and again to cut his hair if he wanted to get a real job. He denied that such a thing would really make a difference. He went to interview after interview, yet remained unemployed for somewhere between 6 months to a year. He finally cut his hair, and had a job offer one week later. (Unlike lookout, though, he remained pissed at us and the judgmental society we live in for a long while after that.) Edit: As to your actual question, would it be appropriate for you to mention it to him... if he is a good friend and not just an acquaintance, I think it would be fine to mention it in a friendly manner. Do not expect him to listen, however, until you've told him at least a few more times. One way to bring it up might be to ask what sort of a job it is --> what sort of office environment is it --> oh, conservative you say? Hmm...

06-09-2008, 04:27 PM	#27
Shawnee123 Why, you're a regular Alfred E Einstein, ain't ya? Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 21,206	Most don't care about hair, but if he has a wacky name he may as well forget it! __________________ A word to the wise ain't necessary - it's the stupid ones who need the advice. --Bill Cosby

06-09-2008, 04:50 PM	#28
smoothmoniker to live and die in LA Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Los Angeles Posts: 2,090	Our realtor referred a mortgage broker. I'm sure the realtor got a kick-back. I hope he did! It was still our choice to go with that broker or not. That broker presented us with several loan options. I'm certain that he will get a kick-back from whichever one we choose. I hope he does. It will still be our choice to use that loan, or to go hunting on our own to find a better loan. The referral kick-back isn't the same thing as a bribe to a purchasing agent, where the payment is quid-pro-quo for securing a contract. Instead, the party making the payment is paying to jump to the front of the line, and be the first to make an offer to the client, who may or may not choose to use that service. __________________ to live and die in LA

06-09-2008, 05:57 PM	#30
HungLikeJesus Only looks like a disaster tourist Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: above 7,000 feet Posts: 7,208	This was my approach: Me: Mike, do you have to put a shirt and tie on for the interview? Mike: No, I'll shave and put on a nice shirt, but no tie. Me: How long have you had that pony tail? Mike: Since the second grade. Me: Ah, I see. That was the end of it. __________________ Keep Your Bodies Off My Lawn SteveDallas's Random Thread Picker.

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