The Pharmaceutical Industry

[Happy Monkey]

Originally Posted by Clodfobble

Yep. Looks like a small percentage of the remedies actually work. Just like pharmaceuticals. I applaud the government for bothering to check.

And now that they've checked, what will happen to the "alternative medicines" that failed the test? I'm guessing that ginger for chemo is not a significant percentage of their business.

When Lily advertises a drug for something that studies have found it has no effect on, it is a scandal, and rightly so. It should be an even bigger scandal for the "alternative medicine" industry, for whom that is the business model. Lily could have put Zyprexa in the herbal remedy aisle with a few testimonials and they wouldn't have needed to do any testing in the first place.

[jinx]

Originally Posted by Happy Monkey

When Lily advertises a drug for something that studies have found it has no effect on, it is a scandal, and rightly so. It should be an even bigger scandal for the "alternative medicine" industry, for whom that is the business model.

I don't understand why you think the alternative medicine industry is the bigger scandal. If I buy a box of medicinal tea or some quack colon cleanser it's a few of my dollars and may or may not benefit me... shouldn't really matter to anyone else. If I go to the doctor and get prescribed some daily dosage, habit forming drug that costs my insurance co $500 a month for the rest of my life, raising everyone's premiums, is only a bit more effective than a sugar pill but could have some serious side effects.... well you can guess which scenario I think would be bigger scandal...

[Happy Monkey]

Originally Posted by jinx

I don't understand why you think the alternative medicine industry is the bigger scandal.

Because the worst practices of the medical industry, the unfortunate examples that make up the bulk of these anti-pharmaceutical news articles, are the standard practice of the alternatives. Advertising and profit are corrupting forces on the industry. But that's all there is in the alternative industry - they are the pharmaceutical industry without the clinical trials.

The fact that some clinical trials are botched is not a good reason to skip them altogether.

[jinx]

Originally Posted by Happy Monkey

Advertising and profit are corrupting forces on the industry. But that's all there is in the alternative industry

Well that and thousands of years of use... of trial and error. And you don't see much advertising... or profit really, when you compare to mainstream big pharma medicine.

The fact that some clinical trials are botched is not a good reason to skip them altogether.

Hey that's fine, make your choices. And mind your own business when it comes to mine ok? Because I might want to try an herbal tea before I get an expensive prescription... or I might try a dab of clove oil before I take a bunch of narcotics etc etc... Placebo effect? Ok fine, I'll take the cheapest/easiest one thanks.

edit: FYI: Botched and fabricated mean two different things.

[Trilby]

Originally Posted by jinx

...or I might try a dab of clove oil before I take a bunch of narcotics...

We can never be friends.

[jinx]

Might, I said, might... I want to keep my options open.

[Trilby]

Originally Posted by jinx

Might, I said, might... I want to keep my options open.

*wipes eyes*

well, okay then. I mean, you could get the narcotics and just...oh, I don't know, have them around in case someone you knew needed them or something like that.

no biggie. Just, you know, narcotics.

[Happy Monkey]

Originally Posted by jinx

Well that and thousands of years of use... of trial and error.

Which can't seem to be duplicated in a double blind study.

And you don't see much advertising... or profit really, when you compare to mainstream big pharma medicine.

It's pure profit. They have no R&D costs, and minimal manufacturing costs. And some of them get plenty of advertising. Head-On, Airborne, and Enzyte come to mind.

[jinx]

Which can't seem to be duplicated in a double blind study.

What, specifically, are you talking about?

Head-On, Airborne, and Enzyte come to mind

Yeah I don't know anything about these products (although I've had a medical professional who frequents this board recommend Zicam based on experience, I haven't actually tried it).
I had more herbal/traditional remedies in mind when talking about "alternative"... you know, the stuff "modern medicine" comes from... although ineffective and advertised would also describe main-stream over the counter cough medicine.

[Happy Monkey]

Originally Posted by jinx

What, specifically, are you talking about?

Anything except the few exceptions noted in the article.

I had more herbal/traditional remedies in mind when talking about "alternative"... you know, the stuff "modern medicine" comes from...

When an herbal remedy is tested and works, it becomes part of modern medicine. If it isn't tested, or is tested and doesn't work, it remains "alternative". If the ginger capsules hold up to further testing, they'll become as much part of modern medicine as aspirin. But all of the remedies that failed testing will remain on the herbal remedy aisle at Whole Foods.

[sugarpop]

Originally Posted by Happy Monkey

Because the worst practices of the medical industry, the unfortunate examples that make up the bulk of these anti-pharmaceutical news articles, are the standard practice of the alternatives. Advertising and profit are corrupting forces on the industry. But that's all there is in the alternative industry - they are the pharmaceutical industry without the clinical trials.

The fact that some clinical trials are botched is not a good reason to skip them altogether.

Chinese and Ayurvedic Medicine have been tested and proved for over 5000 years.

[DanaC]

Originally Posted by sugarpop

Chinese and Ayurvedic Medicine have been tested and proved for over 5000 years.

Yes. And Chinese medicine offered for the relief of eczema can have a negative impact on kidneys. Also....define proved? The jury is still very much out on acupuncture...and really, I think the less said about ground up tiger penis and rhino horn the better.

[sugarpop]

Originally Posted by Happy Monkey

And now that they've checked, what will happen to the "alternative medicines" that failed the test? I'm guessing that ginger for chemo is not a significant percentage of their business.

When Lily advertises a drug for something that studies have found it has no effect on, it is a scandal, and rightly so. It should be an even bigger scandal for the "alternative medicine" industry, for whom that is the business model. Lily could have put Zyprexa in the herbal remedy aisle with a few testimonials and they wouldn't have needed to do any testing in the first place.

Actually a lot of alternative remedies work great. Ginger DOES help nausea. I don't know if it works for chemo, but in general, it works. Pot does work for chemo though. It's really stupid that it's illegal.