Afghanistan - Page 13

Urbane Guerrilla · 12-12-2009, 07:04 PM

And some commentary on Obama's recent speech on the Afghan campaign.

Excerpted:

Quote:

That thought of the perfectibility of the human condition, in lieu of deterrence and military preparedness, throughout history has gotten millions killed. The human condition can be improved, but only by acknowledgment of the lethal propensities of some — and by readiness to prevent those propensities’ becoming manifest. Most of the great wars of the 20th century were fought against those who were convinced that “the human condition can be perfected.”

In short, Obama, in a mere 4,000 words, was trying to explain that even Noble Laureates [sic] like himself have to use force, but that they will do so in a way unlike that of George Bush.

Urbane Guerrilla · 12-12-2009, 07:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by piercehawkeye45

From what I understand, global capitalism is based on the assumption of sufficient global resources. So, if resources are insufficient, we will regress towards a more mercantile mindset assuming we want to keep the same standards of living or don't progress on our needs.

That looks like a pretty big if. Dr. Paul Ehrlich and the Club of Rome were extrapolating resource exhaustion circa 1980-85. Didn't even come close to happening; their model had its defects. All that really seems to be going on is increased viability of mining lower-grade ores, extracting more and more difficult oil, and so on across the board. Start accessing the Solar System, and iron among other things gets rather suddenly very very abundant.

xoxoxoBruce · 12-13-2009, 03:05 AM

Arghandab & The Battle for Kandahar

ZenGum · 12-13-2009, 07:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Urbane Guerrilla

That looks like a pretty big if. Dr. Paul Ehrlich and the Club of Rome were extrapolating resource exhaustion circa 1980-85. Didn't even come close to happening; their model had its defects. All that really seems to be going on is increased viability of mining lower-grade ores, extracting more and more difficult oil, and so on across the board. Start accessing the Solar System, and iron among other things gets rather suddenly very very abundant.

There is plenty of iron (and coal) still in the Earth's crust.

Usable water, farmable land, catchable fish stocks ... we're getting squeezed for those already.

ZenGum · 02-05-2010, 01:08 AM

Bump.

Marjah.

Quote:

The biggest military operation of US President Barack Obama's new Afghan surge will be a test not just for American troops, but also for the Afghan authorities expected to rush with them into the breach.

US Marines are planning a massive operation within days to take Marjah, a warren of canals that forms the last big Taliban enclave in the southern part of Helmand, in the first major show of force since Mr Obama ordered in 30,000 extra troops.

SNIP

The district governor of Marjah, Haji Zair, who has been able to visit but cannot live in the Taliban-held town, says residents repeatedly beg him to bring foreign and Afghan troops.

SNIP

People in Marjah have been informed of plans to secure their town, Mr Zair said, through air-dropped leaflets, radio broadcasts and meetings with tribal elders.

SNIP

Although commanders planning the operation do not disclose the size of the forces that will be involved, taking Marjah will be one of NATO's biggest operations ever in Afghanistan, and by far the biggest for Afghan troops since the war started in 2001.

SNIP

I hope this works.

Canals could make life difficult for armored vehicles. The presence of civilians makes using air strikes and firepower tricky. Helicopters will be very effective, but a lot of this is going to be done with boots on the ground.

Will the talleban make a stand? or fade away into the mountains?

Either way, I presume that we will have military control of the main areas within a few weeks or so, but will we have done so much collateral damage that the locals decide they hate us more than the other mob?

tw · 02-05-2010, 05:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ZenGum

I hope this works. ...
Will the talleban make a stand? or fade away into the mountains?

Quietly ongoing have been discussions between the Taliban, Afghan government, and NATO (America). Many Taliban leaders (apparently) did not want this war. Are negotiating for positions in the Afghan government. Just another example of way informed leaders ALWAYS talk to everyone - even to the enemy.

ZenGum · 02-05-2010, 07:02 PM

Nibble away at their political support base ... good, good.

tw · 02-07-2010, 12:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ZenGum

Nibble away at their political support base ... good, good.

Only possible when our leaders come from where intelligence resides. Only extremists said they must earn the right to talk to us. By talking rather than torturing, it nibbles.

xoxoxoBruce · 02-08-2010, 02:09 AM

Mike Yon with an excellent description, with lots of pictures, of how they supply remote bases from the air. And another hot lady pilot, guys.

ZenGum · 02-08-2010, 04:54 AM

The Beeb on Marja(h). Quick summary of the place and operation.

Includes this:

Quote:

Town and district about 40km (25 miles) south-west of Lashkar Gah
Lies in Helmand's 'Green Zone' - an irrigated area of lush vegetation and farmland
Last remaining major Taliban stronghold in southern Helmand
Area considered a centre for assembling roadside bombs
Key supply centre for opium poppies - lucrative revenue source for Taliban
Estimates of Taliban numbers range up to 1,000
Population of Marja town put at 80,000 while the whole of Marja district is thought to have 125,000

I think it is worth noting that by these numbers,the Taliban are less than one percent of the area's population.

xoxoxoBruce · 02-08-2010, 10:31 AM

New York City has over 8 million people, controlled by 36,000 cops.

ZenGum · 02-09-2010, 03:58 AM

Well that explains why no-one in Marjah ever gets a parking ticket.

tw · 02-09-2010, 06:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ZenGum

Well that explains why no-one in Marjah ever gets a parking ticket.

How would you tell the difference between a ticket written in Arabic and a flyer for the local pizza shop?

If a ticket is in Arabic and you ignore it, did the parking ticket ever exist? Do they behead scofflaws?

xoxoxoBruce · 03-08-2010, 09:51 AM

Quote:

Monday, 08 March 2010
Kandahar, Afghanistan

Yesterday, an American involved in the war effort handed me a document. It was an email from a Lieutenant Colonel in the 82nd Airborne Division in Afghanistan. His unit is in combat seven days a week. To be clear, I did not get the email from the officer and I have never met him.

The email is about the abysmal, unsafe conditions which some of our most dedicated troops are living in, at a remote base run by the Spanish military in Afghanistan. All deletions [xxx] are by me. I have the entire email. The serious and disturbing allegations are found in the second and third paragraphs.

Please note, that the failure to support permanent US troops at this Spanish base constitutes real negligence about their ultimate safety. And that comes on top of a degree of harassment that is shocking among allies.

The message begins:

Quote:

Gentlemen,
I just finished spending a couple days with TF [xxx] at [xxx] and visiting all of our sites that we have troopers located at. Great progress continues to be made in the [xxx], but several items need some help ASAP:

[Para 1 deleted]

2) Qal E Naw: The Spanish are not interested in helping in anyway, and are trying to make us decide to leave based on their unacceptable treatment of Americans. Our refuelers [soldiers who refuel helicopters] that are living there have to run out, unroll the hoses, pull security, and roll everything back up. They have asked for gravel along the FLS as it is currently calf deep mud, but the Spanish refuse to make any improvements. They asked for a T barrier (just one) to put at a 45 degree angle outside the fence where the FARP [Forward Arming and Refueling Point; where helicopters land for ammo and gas] has to be set up so they can run for cover in case there is small arms fire, the Spanish say no and refuse to make any improvements. They asked for a small gate where their billets are located so they can access the FARP directly rather than going a half mile loop to get out the gate, but the Spanish said no and refuse to make any improvements. They [sic] guys are living hard (we understand that) but have to do laundry by hand as all of their stuff is stolen if they turn it into the laundry, they discussed this with the Spanish, but they refuse to many any improvements.

USFOR-A needs to energize someone to develop a viable, enduring plan for this FARP that isn’t reliant on the Spanish. This is a key hub for fuel (since we can’t get trucks to [xxx] or [xxx]) so let’s improve this location to better support those guys living out there on the edge by themselves. They refused to allow a Marine detachment that was dropped there to come into the wire or feed them overnight. Our refuelers had to fight the Spanish to bring them in and squeeze them into the two small tents that they have and give them MREs as they [sic] Spanish wouldn’t feed them. Is this how we allow our Coalition partners to treat Americans?

3) BmG: Who ever briefed that they have gravel there has never been there. We arrived during a TIC [fighting] and a MEDEVAC mission. The aircraft have to land/park in a field that has no gravel and then they sink into the ground. They have to be moved everyday to pull them back out of the mud. If we can’t get gravel, how about putting some AM2 matting, stakes and a couple of Red Horse guys on a CH-47 and fly them in to build a couple of pads just big enough to park an individual UH-60 on? We’ve been pushing the gravel issues since last fall and are no closer to a solution. Those guys are living in fighting positions. When it begins to warm up in the next month, that field will be untenable without gravel or AM2 matting. We don’t want to lose MEDEVAC capability there because we couldn’t put in two pads. We did a MEDEVAC [troop(s) wounded] and Hero [troop(s) killed] mission while I was there and the next day as well, let’s not forget that they are on the tip of the spear, we owe them more.

I would like to discuss these Saturday to see what the way ahead is going to be.

ATW!

On that note, the email closes.

So, our soldiers and Marines, living in rough conditions at the far tip of the spear, apparently are being treated with contempt, with all basic support denied, from laundry to the conditions of the field on which our troops do their thankless job. If this report is true, and I have no reason to doubt it, the Spanish are endangering the lives of our warriors by failing to provide basic safety.

To the extent that there is an international dimension to this potential problem, requiring a diplomatic solution, it deserves the immediate attention of our civilian leadership. Our able Secretary of Defense will likely wish to investigate, and bring it up with our Spanish allies for any corrective measures that might be in order. I will personally see that this gets to Secretary Gates. When Secretary Gates gets wind, we can rest easy that proper attention is forthcoming.

Sincerely,
Michael Yon

This shit has to be fixed right now!

classicman · 03-08-2010, 10:39 AM

12-13-2009, 03:05 AM	#183
xoxoxoBruce The future is unwritten Join Date: Oct 2002 Posts: 71,105	Arghandab & The Battle for Kandahar __________________ The descent of man ~ Nixon, Friedman, Reagan, Trump.

02-05-2010, 07:02 PM	#187
ZenGum Doctor Wtf Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Badelaide, Baustralia Posts: 12,861	Nibble away at their political support base ... good, good. __________________ Shut up and hug. MoreThanPretty, Nov 5, 2008. Just because I'm nominally polite, does not make me a pussy. Sundae Girl.

02-08-2010, 02:09 AM	#189
xoxoxoBruce The future is unwritten Join Date: Oct 2002 Posts: 71,105	Mike Yon with an excellent description, with lots of pictures, of how they supply remote bases from the air. And another hot lady pilot, guys. __________________ The descent of man ~ Nixon, Friedman, Reagan, Trump.

02-08-2010, 10:31 AM	#191
xoxoxoBruce The future is unwritten Join Date: Oct 2002 Posts: 71,105	New York City has over 8 million people, controlled by 36,000 cops. __________________ The descent of man ~ Nixon, Friedman, Reagan, Trump.

02-09-2010, 03:58 AM	#192
ZenGum Doctor Wtf Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Badelaide, Baustralia Posts: 12,861	Well that explains why no-one in Marjah ever gets a parking ticket. __________________ Shut up and hug. MoreThanPretty, Nov 5, 2008. Just because I'm nominally polite, does not make me a pussy. Sundae Girl.

03-08-2010, 10:39 AM	#195
classicman barely disguised asshole, keeper of all that is holy. Join Date: Nov 2007 Posts: 23,401	<BITES TONGUE> __________________ "like strapping a pillow on a bull in a china shop" Bullitt

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