What would Martin Niemoller think about Arizona?

[Cloud]

"Controlling" the borders is fine, and worthwhile. Compassion showed, yes, even to illegals, who are almost always between a rock and a hard place, and their families, who are often legal, is essential.

This is more than an abstract political question to me. It directly affects 100% of the people around me. My life has been intimately entwined with Mexico, with Mexicans, with Mexican Americans forever. I'm a Western girl, brought up in the areas of the US that used to belong to Spain. I've visited Mexico since I was very small, I speak Spanish. My parents sponsored entire families to get their green cards and subsequent citizenship. My parents retired in Mexico, I went to college there, I fell in love with a Mexican and had a child with him who had dual citizenship until she was 21. I'm about as Mexican as I can get without actually being one. So, yeah--I'm empathetic to the problem.

Presently, I am seeing families torn apart, and people fleeing from violence. I am seeing the complex, and completely intertwined relationships--business, economic, social, and familial that form across the border. I don't particularly want illegal aliens here, but I decry the simplistic approach of just "securing the borders" or "sending them all back to where they came from."

Am I for "control" of the border? Am I for a better immigration scheme? Sure! But I urge everyone to consider that no single phrase or simple approach is sensible to apply to this very difficult and heartrending problem.

[Flint]

Originally Posted by Cloud

...
But I urge everyone to consider that no single phrase or simple approach is sensible to apply to this very difficult and heartrending problem.

Good Gawd--we need to assign a special task force to this problem ASAP: we need a better catchphrase!!!1

[classicman]

Originally Posted by Cloud

"Controlling" the borders is fine, and worthwhile.

We agree.

This is more than an abstract political question to me. It directly affects 100% of the people around me. ~snip~ So, yeah--I'm empathetic to the problem.

That was obvious from your first post. You have a perspective that is very different than mine. Thats one of the things I love about interacting here. The diversity.

I am seeing the complex, and completely intertwined relationships--business, economic, social, and familial that form across the border. I don't particularly want illegal aliens here, but I decry the simplistic approach of just "securing the borders" or "sending them all back to where they came from."

BUT - and yes thats a big butt. Something has to be done. We cannot just grant them all immunity. Nor can we just send them all back.
We have to get a handle on the vast numbers of them coming here illegally. Until that takes place, there are no real solutions.
One of the positives I see out of this law is that it has brought this back to the forefront and may force the current administration to address the problem. Unfortunately, I think it will be more of a politically motivated policy.

Am I for "control" of the border? Am I for a better immigration scheme? Sure! But I urge everyone to consider that no single phrase or simple approach

AGREED!

[jinx]

Originally Posted by Cloud

Presently, I am seeing families torn apart, and people fleeing from violence. I am seeing the complex, and completely intertwined relationships--business, economic, social, and familial that form across the border. I don't particularly want illegal aliens here, but I decry the simplistic approach of just "securing the borders" or "sending them all back to where they came from."

The level of violence is almost unreal... must be terrifying.
Help me understand what is tearing families apart. Is there anything stopping people from crossing the border as frequently as they want? I understand it's gotta be inconvenient*, but it's not like it's new or anything.... that border has been there longer than most of the people crossing it have been alive.

I don't particularly want illegal aliens here either... it's not so much the 'undocumented workers' I have a problem with, it's the violent gang-bangers from mexico and central america that have no intention of being anything but a danger to the rest of us that really bug me... But at the same time, I think that if the border was actually secure I would have no problem offering amnesty to every illegal alien in the country that goes and gets signed up with Social Security immediately. But we can't have what's going on now, with the uncontrolled border and welfare state together. The math just doesn't work - see not enough $$ to train AZ cops properly etc.

*I just watched a show about a Canadian border town, border right down the middle of town, residents having to cross several times a day. Prior to 911 they just waved to Bob at the gate, now it's a whole thing with security everywhere. Pain in the ass but they seem to have a sense of humor about it, on both sides.

[Griff]

Originally Posted by jinx

I don't particularly want illegal aliens here either... it's not so much the 'undocumented workers' I have a problem with, it's the violent gang-bangers from mexico and central america that have no intention of being anything but a danger to the rest of us that really bug me... But at the same time, I think that if the border was actually secure I would have no problem offering amnesty to every illegal alien in the country that goes and gets signed up with Social Security immediately.

The bottom line is that until we find a sensible alternative to the drug war we won't have a reasonable chance of resolving the illegal immigration issue.

[Pie]

Originally Posted by Griff

The bottom line is that until we find a sensible alternative to the drug war we won't have a reasonable chance of resolving the illegal immigration issue.

Quoted for truth.

[jinx]

Originally Posted by Griff

The bottom line is that until we find a sensible alternative to the drug war we won't have a reasonable chance of resolving the illegal immigration issue.

I'd love to hear one.
Personally, I'd like to see home-grown drugs (specifically pot, no one should be dying or going to jail over pot) controls relaxed, freeing up money to spend on stopping the imported poison. Asking nicely won't work unfortunately.

The various wars in central america have sent us millions of people, many trained guerilla fighters with no other skills. What are we supposed to do about this?

[Sheldonrs]

Originally Posted by jinx

...The various wars in central america have sent us millions of people, many trained guerilla fighters with no other skills. What are we supposed to do about this?

Well since they are already trained, let's give them teaching credentials and set them up in our inner city schools.
It might improve test scores.

[Griff]

Originally Posted by jinx

I'd love to hear one.
Personally, I'd like to see home-grown drugs (specifically pot, no one should be dying or going to jail over pot) controls relaxed, freeing up money to spend on stopping the imported poison. Asking nicely won't work unfortunately.

This is a good place to start. Stiff pot taxes could pay for a lot of anti-chemical programming.