What would Martin Niemoller think about Arizona? - Page 8

piercehawkeye45 · 04-28-2010, 02:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lookout123

There are no roadblocks between cities checking papers. No roving patrols grabbing brown people. No plot to turn AZ white. The Nazi analogy might have been off the mark. Just a little.

I agree with this. I might be completely wrong in this situation, but from my personal experience, any time the police seem to get new powers that could hypothetically be abused, it rarely happens because it is not worth the police officer's time. There will be a few cases of abuse by a racist cop or two but I am guessing this law will not have a much impact in stopping illegal immigration or lead to increase of police abuse from racial profiling.

Laws like this tend to have other, more logical reasons, behind it. But, from an opposition standpoint, a good argument I've heard is that with the lack of funding to Arizona's police officers, this will probably not do much because of a lack of training and other things.

Cloud · 04-28-2010, 02:37 PM

BTW, there are roadblocks between cities checking papers. There are Border Patrol check stations; there's one between here and Albuquerque, for instance. Everyone must stop and be inspected. They check for drugs, for terrorist activities, and for human trafficking (I assume--don't know exactly what their mandate is).

No, they never check my papers, because I'm a middle aged white woman.

furthermore, there are "roving patrols grabbing brown people." What do you think the Border Patrol does?

caveat: I live in Texas, not Arizona.

Spexxvet · 04-28-2010, 02:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by classicman

... Whats the percentage that fly in versus every other means?
...

Why do percentages matter? Gotta get them all.

Pie · 04-28-2010, 02:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shawnee123

Cloud, that was a damn fine post.

Thirded.

glatt · 04-28-2010, 02:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pie

Thirded.

I was pretty impressed by it as well.

classicman · 04-28-2010, 03:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spexxvet

Why do percentages matter? Gotta get them all.

Really? If we solved, hypothetically 90% of this problem you'd still be dissatisfied?

Cloud · 04-28-2010, 03:21 PM

"Controlling" the borders is fine, and worthwhile. Compassion showed, yes, even to illegals, who are almost always between a rock and a hard place, and their families, who are often legal, is essential.

This is more than an abstract political question to me. It directly affects 100% of the people around me. My life has been intimately entwined with Mexico, with Mexicans, with Mexican Americans forever. I'm a Western girl, brought up in the areas of the US that used to belong to Spain. I've visited Mexico since I was very small, I speak Spanish. My parents sponsored entire families to get their green cards and subsequent citizenship. My parents retired in Mexico, I went to college there, I fell in love with a Mexican and had a child with him who had dual citizenship until she was 21. I'm about as Mexican as I can get without actually being one. So, yeah--I'm empathetic to the problem.

Presently, I am seeing families torn apart, and people fleeing from violence. I am seeing the complex, and completely intertwined relationships--business, economic, social, and familial that form across the border. I don't particularly want illegal aliens here, but I decry the simplistic approach of just "securing the borders" or "sending them all back to where they came from."

Am I for "control" of the border? Am I for a better immigration scheme? Sure! But I urge everyone to consider that no single phrase or simple approach is sensible to apply to this very difficult and heartrending problem.

Pico and ME · 04-28-2010, 03:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by glatt

I was pretty impressed by it as well.

Add me to this growing list!

Flint · 04-28-2010, 03:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cloud

...
But I urge everyone to consider that no single phrase or simple approach is sensible to apply to this very difficult and heartrending problem.

Good Gawd--we need to assign a special task force to this problem ASAP: we need a better catchphrase!!!1

classicman · 04-28-2010, 03:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cloud

"Controlling" the borders is fine, and worthwhile.

We agree.

Quote:

This is more than an abstract political question to me. It directly affects 100% of the people around me. ~snip~ So, yeah--I'm empathetic to the problem.

That was obvious from your first post. You have a perspective that is very different than mine. Thats one of the things I love about interacting here. The diversity.

Quote:

I am seeing the complex, and completely intertwined relationships--business, economic, social, and familial that form across the border. I don't particularly want illegal aliens here, but I decry the simplistic approach of just "securing the borders" or "sending them all back to where they came from."

BUT - and yes thats a big butt. Something has to be done. We cannot just grant them all immunity. Nor can we just send them all back.
We have to get a handle on the vast numbers of them coming here illegally. Until that takes place, there are no real solutions.
One of the positives I see out of this law is that it has brought this back to the forefront and may force the current administration to address the problem. Unfortunately, I think it will be more of a politically motivated policy.

Quote:

Am I for "control" of the border? Am I for a better immigration scheme? Sure! But I urge everyone to consider that no single phrase or simple approach

AGREED!

Cloud · 04-28-2010, 03:54 PM

(happy)

Flint · 04-28-2010, 03:57 PM

Hall of Fame

xoxoxoBruce · 04-28-2010, 04:22 PM

Don't forget it's not just Mexicans. Mexico is the highway into the US for people from all over Central and South America.

Flint · 04-28-2010, 04:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by xoxoxoBruce

Don't forget it's not just Mexicans. Mexico is the highway into the US for people from all over Central and South America.

You're right, it would be more racially sensitive and politically correct to use the inclusive term "brown people" in this case.

Shawnee123 · 04-28-2010, 05:06 PM

I can get pretty brown in the summer. I object!

04-28-2010, 02:37 PM	#107
Cloud ... Join Date: Feb 2007 Posts: 8,360	BTW, there are roadblocks between cities checking papers. There are Border Patrol check stations; there's one between here and Albuquerque, for instance. Everyone must stop and be inspected. They check for drugs, for terrorist activities, and for human trafficking (I assume--don't know exactly what their mandate is). No, they never check my papers, because I'm a middle aged white woman. furthermore, there are "roving patrols grabbing brown people." What do you think the Border Patrol does? caveat: I live in Texas, not Arizona. __________________ "Guard your honor. Let your reputation fall where it will. And outlive the bastards!" Last edited by Cloud; 04-28-2010 at 02:43 PM.

04-28-2010, 03:21 PM	#112
Cloud ... Join Date: Feb 2007 Posts: 8,360	"Controlling" the borders is fine, and worthwhile. Compassion showed, yes, even to illegals, who are almost always between a rock and a hard place, and their families, who are often legal, is essential. This is more than an abstract political question to me. It directly affects 100% of the people around me. My life has been intimately entwined with Mexico, with Mexicans, with Mexican Americans forever. I'm a Western girl, brought up in the areas of the US that used to belong to Spain. I've visited Mexico since I was very small, I speak Spanish. My parents sponsored entire families to get their green cards and subsequent citizenship. My parents retired in Mexico, I went to college there, I fell in love with a Mexican and had a child with him who had dual citizenship until she was 21. I'm about as Mexican as I can get without actually being one. So, yeah--I'm empathetic to the problem. Presently, I am seeing families torn apart, and people fleeing from violence. I am seeing the complex, and completely intertwined relationships--business, economic, social, and familial that form across the border. I don't particularly want illegal aliens here, but I decry the simplistic approach of just "securing the borders" or "sending them all back to where they came from." Am I for "control" of the border? Am I for a better immigration scheme? Sure! But I urge everyone to consider that no single phrase or simple approach is sensible to apply to this very difficult and heartrending problem. __________________ "Guard your honor. Let your reputation fall where it will. And outlive the bastards!"

04-28-2010, 03:54 PM	#116
Cloud ... Join Date: Feb 2007 Posts: 8,360	(happy) __________________ "Guard your honor. Let your reputation fall where it will. And outlive the bastards!"

04-28-2010, 03:57 PM	#117
Flint Snowflake Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Dystopia Posts: 13,136	Hall of Fame __________________ **************** There's a level of facility that everyone needs to accomplish, and from there it's a matter of deciding for yourself how important ultra-facility is to your expression. ... I found, like Joseph Campbell said, if you just follow whatever gives you a little joy or excitement or awe, then you're on the right track. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Terry Bozzio**

04-28-2010, 04:22 PM	#118
xoxoxoBruce The future is unwritten Join Date: Oct 2002 Posts: 71,105	Don't forget it's not just Mexicans. Mexico is the highway into the US for people from all over Central and South America. __________________ The descent of man ~ Nixon, Friedman, Reagan, Trump.

04-28-2010, 05:06 PM	#120
Shawnee123 Why, you're a regular Alfred E Einstein, ain't ya? Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 21,206	I can get pretty brown in the summer. I object! __________________ A word to the wise ain't necessary - it's the stupid ones who need the advice. --Bill Cosby

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