Afghanistan

[infinite monkey]

well now THEY know

[regular.joe]

Originally Posted by ZenGum

Okay, here's the plan.

We pump a few million barrels of oil under Afghanistan. Then we "discover" it and get all excited. Then the Chinese get interested and we do a deal with them that they take over maintaining security in exchange for access to the mineral rights. We bugger off, China gets to bleed out in the mountains for a decade.

Whaddaya think?

That is a freakin awesome idea!

[regular.joe]

Originally Posted by infinite monkey

well now THEY know

Oh, no problem...we just have to kill everyone who looks at this thread. Now, where is that mod at??

[infinite monkey]

[ZenGum]

Relax, infi, it took damn near a decade to get Bin Laden, and we knew his real name!

[Griff]

The irony in this whole thing is that the Commie Chinese will go in there and build market based relationships with individual tribes after the self-styled Captalistic Americans abandon their attempted military imposition.

[gvidas]

Time to Leave Afghanistan
Michael Yon
Today, 9:42 AM
21 January 2012

This war is going to turn out badly. We are wasting lives and resources while the United States decays and other threats emerge. We led the horse to water.

Importantly, there is no value in pretending that Pakistan is an ally. We should wish the best of luck to the Afghans, and the many peaceful Pakistanis, and accelerate our withdrawal of our main battle force. The US never has been serious about Afghanistan. Under General Petraeus we were starting to gain ground, but the current trajectory will land us in the mud.

The enemies will never beat us in Afghanistan. Force on force, the Taliban are weak by comparison. Yet this is their home. There is only so much we can do at this extreme cost for the many good Afghan people. We must reduce our main effort and concentrate on other matters. Time to come home.

Sincerely,

Michael Yon

I wonder what changed his mind. Without double checking, I thought even as recently as mid 2011 he was optimistic about our chances of effecting lasting good.

[classicman]

"We led the horse to water."
"there is no value in pretending that Pakistan is an ally."
"Time to come home."
Agree, agree, yup.

[tw]

Originally Posted by gvidas

I wonder what changed his mind. ... I thought even as recently as mid 2011 he was optimistic about our chances of effecting lasting good.

DejaVue Nam. History repeats itself. These military types who view everything from a battlefield and tactical objectives were gun ho. That changed after 1970. Even Army officers in draft boards would tell inductees that they would do everything possible to get each rejected.

Nam was obviously in 1965 a defeat. But America had to sacrifice so much before even the military men realized what was well understood in "Making of a Quagmire" and "A Bright and Shining Lie". Even after the lies were exposed in the Pentagon Papers, still, so many so hated the American soldier at to remain gun ho.

We surrendered to the Taliban in 2003. That made victory over the Taliban difficult - probably impossible. But America had to sacrifice even tens of thousands of soldiers in Afghanistan until bin Laden and his supporters were killed or captured. Addressing the strategic objective in Afghanistan did not start until about 2008. And is now done.

The other part - conquering bin Laden's supporters was possible in 2002. And probably impossible now due to fundamental military doctrine from 2500 years ago that includes many concepts such as nation building.

Top brass hate to admit to defeat. But no way around it. George Jr surrendered to the Taliban in 2003. The legacy of that mistake cannot be rectified without doing even more and major harm to the American economy. Military men are some of the last to realize those costs.

Yon apparently appreciates what was the bigger picture back in mid 2000s. As so many in Nam also refused to admit until after 1970.

Military men spending too much time viewing the tactical are some of the last to grasp the strategic. DejaVue Nam.

[Lamplighter]

The U.S. glass is half-full... and it's a start that has to happen sometime.

Reuters
Missy Ryan
Feb 16, 2012

Afghan peace push brings rare chance, risks, for U.S.

(Reuters) - If all goes as hoped, U.S. and Qatari negotiators will meet soon
to nail down final details for transferring Taliban prisoners from Guantanamo prison
- a momentous step for President Barack Obama, the Afghan war and perhaps U.S. foreign policy as well.

Should U.S., Afghan and Qatari officials reach agreement, the Obama administration's
careful diplomatic choreography then calls for the Afghan Taliban to open an office in Qatar
to conduct peace talks with the Western-backed Afghan government.
The Taliban would be expected to make a statement condemning international terrorism.

And at some point - exactly when is unclear - the United States would start sending
the first of five senior Taliban members it has held for a decade to Qatar.

On the way to the first-ever peace negotiations to end the long and
bloody Afghan war, much could go wrong - indeed much already has.
The peace talks have been beset by fits and starts, and U-turns,
and there is a good chance that even these initial good-faith measures won't ultimately come off.
<snip>
"Two years ago the hope at the Pentagon was that we were going to
defeat these guys so seriously they would no longer be a military force.
No one expects that to happen anymore," said Bruce Riedel, a former CIA and
White House official who chaired Obama's 2009 review of Afghan policy.

The article goes on to discuss some of the history of dealing with the Taliban.

[ZenGum]

Following on further allegations of the burning of Korans, we have a spree killing.

US troops in Afghanistan have been placed on alert following the killings of 16 Afghan civilians by a US soldier.

[ SNIP ]

The soldier, believed to be a staff sergeant, is reported to have walked off his base at around 03:00 Sunday (22:30 GMT Saturday).

In the villages of Alkozai and Najeeban, about 500m (1,640 feet) from the base, he reportedly broke into three homes.

At one house in Najeeban, 11 people were found shot dead, and some of their bodies set alight. At least three of the child victims are reported to have been killed by a single shot to the head.

The US military said reports indicated that the soldier returned to his base after the shootings and turned himself in. His motives are unclear - there is speculation that he might have been drunk or suffered a mental breakdown.

The soldier is being detained in Kandahar and the military is treating at least five people wounded in the attacks, officials said.

The detained soldier has not been identified, although US officials quoted by AP news agency said he was from Joint Base Lewis-McChord in Washington state, 38 years old, married with two children, and had served three tours in Iraq and was on his first deployment in Afghanistan.

Poor bugger. Looks like he served - or was used - until he burned out, and now they're probably going to have to hang him.

Three families murdered, a nation outraged - again - and a messy problem made a little worse.

[regular.joe]

This is sad. Sad for the families and Afghans. HOLY COW if this is not the worst timing, there is never a good timing for this sort of thing. Not going to bode well for our policy decisions in Afghanistan. I feel bad for the other Joes who will have to deal with the consequences of this guys flipped out decision.

[ZenGum]

Yep. In this country the closest thing they have to justice is tribal payback. Retaliation is bound to come.

[fargon]

Give that soldier to the Afghans and let them try him.

[TheMercenary]

Originally Posted by ZenGum

Yep. In this country the closest thing they have to justice is tribal payback. Retaliation is bound to come.

Just made a bad situation worse.