"She", not "he", guys

[BigV]

Originally Posted by BrianR

Genders are not interchangeable. You are what you are between your ears.

I do not go back and forth, as the situation demands. I am a female. Period. That I was born with male parts is fixable now. And when it's all said and done, I will be a woman. With female parts. Period. I don't get to say I'm a man now because the mechanic is lying to me again. Or I really want that job but they don't hire women for it. Or because it's Tuesday.

Transsexuals generally do not go in for anything other than the binary gender paradigm. (I've always wanted to use that word!) We only want to fit in to the existing norm. It's the others on the TG spectrum that want to play games with gender. Live and let live, I say.

I do not agree with discriminating against anyone on the basis of their appearance, even if it makes you uncomfortable. *I* happen to dislike bigots. But do I go around saying they should not be permitted to breed? Or should be rounded up and exiled? Or shot? No. Yet this is what transsexuals live with daily.

Back on topic, that prisoner does not suffer from a mental illness, as some suggest. It is a physical deformity that is easily visible, yet camouflaged in plain sight. But, unlike other types of deformity, such as a deviated septum or a harelip or a club foot, this deformity affects primarily the mind. That is why so many would (and do) deny appropriate treatment as defined by medical professionals. GRS/SRS is NOT cosmetic surgery in the case of a transsexual, it is corrective.

The judge ruled properly, yet I still wish it had been someone other than a prisoner, because the resulting news coverage may hurt us as much as help us.

I truly hope that this decision stands, not for the benefit of prisoners, but because it can have ripple effects for us all.

More and more health plans are covering Hormone Replacement Therapy, counseling and even surgery for transsexuals. One day soon, Medicare will cover it too, I hope. That, I believe, will sway a majority of health plans.

Originally Posted by BrianR

No V.. You misunderstand. I said MY penis, as well as other attributes not common to my gender, are a deformity. Somewhere in my link collection I have a chart that shows how I was supposed to have developed but for a poorly-timed shot of testosterone during my development. My (not your) penis is supposed to be my vagina, my testes are supposed to be my ovaries etc.

I was speaking only for transsexual women. YOU were born male and you got the standard-issue male brain to go with the package. I did not. That's the difference. What is a deformity to ME is perfectly normal to YOU.

Love

Pam

I'm sure I do misunderstand, that's why I asked for clarification. I'd like to clarify one of your points first Pam. You did not say "MY penis" as is clear in your post above. Your quote clearly shows you were talking about the the prisoner, and by extension the prisoner's deformity.

I accept your description of your body as your opinion, fine. I struggle to follow through on your word choice, but that's on me. Your penis is deformed? Is it a badly formed vagina? Because it sure looks like a normally formed penis. I haven't seen your genitals Pam, we both know this, I'm using my imagination.

When you talk about the prisoner's penis, you're not talking about your feelings about your own body, but about some third person, someone like me even. If you can suggest that the penis of the prisoner is

a physical deformity that is easily visible, yet camouflaged in plain sight.

you could just as easily be talking about a different third person, someone like me even. And that description is wrong. It's an abuse of the language. That's why I spoke up.

[BigV]

Originally Posted by henry quirk

...with this -- "Fine, when he gets out he can do, and be, whatever he wants, I couldn't give a shit less." -- some one is liable to call you 'cunt' or 'bully'...

##

"did you just tell me to shut up?"

Pretty much, yeah.

It didn't work.

[BigV]

Originally Posted by henry quirk

Nope, your point was clear as crystal...just not worth acknowledging (by me, anyway).

'nuff said.

Originally Posted by DanaC

There are many people in the world, no doubt, who give a fuck what you do or do not acknowledge, Henry. I am not one of them.

hq reminds me of tw when he's not in his manic phase. he still knows everything, he just doesn't deign to acknowledge it.

[it]

i am not sure whats going on, but regarding the OP:

the question is contextual and depends on which aspects are relevant.

for example, if the matter in question is a medical question, i would most likely relate to them as a male who has had major surgery and hormonal treatments, because both facts can be quite relevant.

likewise, if i would be looking for a women to start a family with, a tranny wouldn't be able to provide that. if its a matter of sexual attraction, and the tranny looks too masculine for my taste to me despite alternations (as is often the case), then she isn't of my sexual liking, just as most physically masculine women would be regardless of how they are born. if this isn't the case, and for my sensual experience it feels and looks like i am with a woman, where the fact she was born with male organs merely being a little fact at the back of my head, i doubt it would influence me much, though i would be curious as to how well do the altered genitalia function as far as sexual pleasure and orgasms. i haven't yet being in that situation though.

however if i am talking to her as a friend or a potential friend, then it makes the most sense to me to respect her sense of identity. likewise, if i am looking for some female advice, and she has gained enough experience within a feminine sociological reality, i am likely to treat her as a female.

that's being said, i do not feel i should have my questions and questioning bound by the laws of PC mannerism, and i'm unlikely to consider her a potentially good friend if they get pissed over it. your different, you made the choice to inform me about it, it incites curiousity, and possibilities that you might not feel comfortable with are going to be explored given that information, if you expect me to walk on egg shells for you after doing that, i consider yo a dick no matter what's between your pants.

now, who are we talking about?

[DanaC]

Hi Trace!!!!! *hugs*

Where ya been ?

[henry quirk]

It was worth a shot...*shrug*

[BigV]

Nice to see you again traceur. How are you? I'll go check for posts from you to find out any new news. :waves:

[henry quirk]

traceur,

My opening post for this thread refers to Ibby.

My position (opposed, it seems, by every one):
http://cellar.org/showpost.php?p=817432&postcount=164

Much later in the thread: I posted a news bit about a prisoner awarded a sex change by the court.

That should clear up the confusion.

[BrianR]

V, I admit I could have phrased my response better. Pronouns give me trouble. *I* know what I mean! The problem is in my way of trying to communicate to YOU what I mean. This is why I turned down the spokestranny position that I was offered a little while ago.

Trace, welcome back!

Point of procedure? Please do not call us "trannies". We consider the term insulting and demeaning, almost on a par with ""he-she" and "shemale". *I* have a thick skin on this point but if any of my sisters are reading and lurking, they may not. The proper PC term is "transwoman", "transman" or "transperson". I am fully aware that I use the term. I personally do not see the harm in a simple word. However, I do take into account the thought and meaning attached to the word. Sometimes, I think our community is TOO sensitive on certain things and is definitely disorganized on all fronts.

Thank you!

Love

Pam

[BigV]

Thanks again Pam for the extended clarification, I appreciate it. I'm happy to let it stand at this: "my feelings, put into words, about myself". I totally respect that.

---

regarding the terminology, can you provide some more clarification for me please? I am ignorant, but I don't wish to offend, even unintentionally. My question is this. Taking you as an example, (with your thick skin and all, whew), are you a transman, or a transwoman? I am uncertain about the usage of the "_ _ _ _ _ m a n" or "_ _ _ _ _ w o m a n" in two cases. Am I to consider the current .... ???? state/appearance of the person I'm speaking to/of? or am I to consider what their genitalia indicated when they were born? Or am I to consider the gender they're striving to conform to?... augh... I think I'm over thinking it but I would like to know more. It would be nice to "get it right". Will you please help?

[xoxoxoBruce]

Originally Posted by DanaC

@bruce: So, actually, for you it's the broader picture, rather than specifically this procedure that you object to?

That's a whole other argument I think. Whether much of what is done for prisoners is necessary and warrants taxpayer money. It's the separating off of this procedure as different from much of what is currently covered by taxpayers that I object to more, I think.

Goddamnit, I left a whole long reply last night but it's not here. Probably previewed and didn't post, or some stupid shit.
Anyway, basically yes. Prisoners get treated better than vets, and I question what's necessary vs what's job security for the docs and shrinks. They have a basically free hand to tinker to their hearts and wallets delight.

[BrianR]

Originally Posted by BigV

Thanks again Pam for the extended clarification, I appreciate it. I'm happy to let it stand at this: "my feelings, put into words, about myself". I totally respect that.

---

regarding the terminology, can you provide some more clarification for me please? I am ignorant, but I don't wish to offend, even unintentionally. My question is this. Taking you as an example, (with your thick skin and all, whew), are you a transman, or a transwoman? I am uncertain about the usage of the "_ _ _ _ _ m a n" or "_ _ _ _ _ w o m a n" in two cases. Am I to consider the current .... ???? state/appearance of the person I'm speaking to/of? or am I to consider what their genitalia indicated when they were born? Or am I to consider the gender they're striving to conform to?... augh... I think I'm over thinking it but I would like to know more. It would be nice to "get it right". Will you please help?

Thank you V. I will be glad to help you out regarding gender/pronouns/terminology. I am mostly speaking for myself, but what I recommend applies to pretty much all of us except the really militant ones.

Please use the gender/pronouns of the gender that we are presenting to you at the time. Even if we are not "fooling" anyone. Yes, some of us go back and forth. Those would be the ones that are not yet "out" to certain people. They may be protecting themselves, their job, or friends/family. Please respect that. If you are in doubt, please ask us in private. Most will tell you and thank you for your consideration.

The proper term (for me) is transsexual woman, or just woman/female/she/her. Never "it". In my case, you are unlikely to ever see me in male mode ever again. But there are those who are still coming out. If they have told you, but not someone else, take it as a compliment and a vote of confidence.

Transwoman is also acceptable. Once I am through the transition process (I will share this with everyone here), the proper term is female, woman, she/her etc. No trans.

Transsexuality is considered a medical condition and, in most cases, curable with medication and corrective surgery. Once "cured", the dysphoria disappears for the vast majority of us. And our outward presentation is in harmony with our internal identity.

[BigV]

That's really helpful Pam, thank you very much.

[BrianR]

Perhaps now might be a good time to address the topic of how to talk to a transsexual. I speak mostly for the MtF crowd here. But many comments apply to transmen as well. Just think of us as regular people. We are not some exotic creature in a zoo, we are not going to bite your head off or jump your bones right there.

But, while I generally welcome questions if they are asked from a genuine desire to learn and understand me, there are some that are insulting.
Ms. Calpernia Addams addresses some of these in the following video. While it is done from her unique brand of wit and is funny, there is a kernel of truth hidden inside as well. I have been asked most of these questions already and, while I handle them with good grace (usually), deep inside, this is often what I am thinking.





Now that that is out of the way, I hereby authorise everyone to ask me, as a representative of the greater transsexual community, most any question. Please be respectful and I will return the favor.

Love

Pamela

[xoxoxoBruce]

Originally Posted by BrianR

...we are not going to bite your head off or jump your bones right there.

Love

Pamela

Well that's disappointing.