User renamed and gone

[lumberjim]

you're not a very nice guy, John. This kind of thing always seems to happen regardless of what name you use. You lash out with minimal provocation. There's a certain underlying bitterness there that you can't help but to let slip. Personally, I'm fucking done with it. Go screw.

[Zathris]

I have anger issues.

[ForFuckSake]

Well this was an interesting read... I wanted to go down nice and quietly, but since undertoad was so nice as to shine the spotlight...

Originally Posted by glatt

This finally all came to a head over in the gender equality thread when he said some stupid shit and got called on it by everyone. I think he was genuinely surprised that so many people told him he was wrong. It bruised his ego and so he left.

I would have loved it if someone would have told me I was wrong, at least then it would be interesting, and like most of those things, I usually try to get proven wrong, hell I am wrong plenty of times, I'd have to be at least half the times considering how often I change my mind on things. But instead people didn't engage what I said at all, they just thought the way I expressed my point was revolting. What is the counter argument for "ew"?

Frankly, I get it, and people have a right to think that, but learning people by checking for what they demonstrate - seen how they react to things - is such a cornerstone of my way of thinking that there is nothing for me to do with it. Plenty of people think blood flow is gross, doesn't mean I am going to try to get rid of mine.

Originally Posted by Dude111

Yes tell me about it!!

Im on another VBB site where you wouldnt believe how many ppl want thier accounts and activity deleted... WHY??

Funny that you should ask - probably rhetorical but I'll answer anyway - because I asked the same thing in the past... And now I know at least some of the possible reasons, since it's the first place I ever felt the need for it.

You assume that people want their stuff deleted only because it can impact them in real life and you assume people who know them in real life don't know or can't find out who they are. Both of your assumptions are wrong. Regarding the later, that's certainly not true for me - the partition between real life and online life is a very fragile one. Regarding the first - exhibit A - this post. You see how I am currently answering you which is a pretty obvious failure at leaving? This is part of it. Subjectively when people leave a place there is often a sense that they leave part of themselves there, and under the wrong circumstances - much of the same circumstances that would might make someone want to leave in the first place - parts that you'd feel like they'd need defending, which would make it harder to leave and cut loose. The problem is when you don't feel like there is any reason to stay other then to come back to defending it.
This is a pretty common thing, in commercial websites it's often employed consciously to keep people coming back and to keep the content rolling for everyone else. Here I am guessing it is employed because it's easier then otherwise, and unsurprisingly the results are quite a few people who come here and have no stake in this place other then the long tail of leftover conflicts.

Originally Posted by lumberjim

you're not a very nice guy, John. This kind of thing always seems to happen regardless of what name you use. You lash out with minimal provocation. There's a certain underlying bitterness there that you can't help but to let slip. Personally, I'm fucking done with it. Go screw.

Interesting that you should say that about him - I still have no idea what did I do to provoke yours in the first place.

Originally Posted by sexobon

Your future husband.

Also the only person here who didn't completely ignore every single thing you say. You do realize that right? Do you really not notice how nobody ever responds to anything you say? I have seen twice people reacting to you at all, and even that was barely so. Are you really happy going back to getting ignored by everyone so completely and nobody ever paying attention to anything you have to say? You might like to justify the problems I had here with others to various degrees, but the problems I have here sometimes - enough to annoy me - are the ones that are completely indistinguishable from how everyone here treats you all the time. At least for me these are still problems, you've become so used to people here treating you like shit that you think this is what air smells like.

Originally Posted by xoxoxoBruce

Like all of us, he's acquired some bumps and bruises along the way, but I got they impression he felt he'd learned so much hanging around psychology forums, he felt superior in his qualification to be the shepherd, leading us where he could show his chops. But he ran into the madding, for shepherds, Cellar thread drift. Like he's got his points and rebuttals all stacked like snowballs, and the kids go to another yard.

But since I'm no psychologist, or shepherd, I'm guessing at his motivation, and may be way off base. For the same reasons, I enjoy the neat gems the thread drifts unexpectedly dig up sometimes.

In summation... damifino.

Not really. I didn't want conversations to go a certain way, I just wanted them to, well... Go. anywhere at all. The reality is that I couldn't get here conversations rolling, at least not when it's a conversation about something. I am not blaming anyone on that - comes down to it, it doesn't matter why - the simple reality was that I couldn't get most conversations rolling at all, not within my own topics and not in existing one.

Don't get me wrong, you guys engage plenty when its a conversation about someone - whether it's personal life or online drama like here right now - but not when it's about something. Mostly then there's no conversation rolling at all, unless it's something you are already familiar with in which case it becomes a list of disconnected opinions that rarely respond to each other with very little dialogue, with the one exception of politics. But politics is, well... Politics. Established conversations we've all heard a hundred times where everyone knows everyone else's arguments.

TBH I don't know why, but I do know that getting conversations going used to come very easily for me in every other single place I've been. DanaC can vouch for that if she''s willing - at least in regards to where she met me - threads with the most esoteric and weird topics still ended up with pages on pages of ongoing debates with plenty of people joining in. This is something I used to be able to take for granted. But here.... Nothing, not even drifting, no motion at all. I try to pass the ball and nobody picks it up.... Hell, in the last conversation it felt like it was vomited on instead.

Which is fine. There is nothing wrong about a group of people who mainly just talk and engage with each other about their lives, and I've done some of that here as well, but for that to work you need to feel like you have some connections to each other, and bonding for me usually happens when I feel like I am thinking together with someone... Mind-meld, if you know what I mean.
Normally it just kind of happens, I have at least one person I still talk too from every single place I was part of, but the conflict with dana in particular made me realize... This is the first community I've taken part of that I felt if I left there would be nobody I would keep in contact with, or anyone that would want too for that matter - there just wasn't any click with anyone.

So if it's not for the conversations and not for the people, what is there left come here for? Just to continue defending unfinished arguments and whatever pieces of yourself you leave around?

Well... Apparently, I am doing it right now. But the point about it being pointless still stands.

[DanaC]

One of the reasons for not deleting user's posts is because it orphans all the other posts around it. 3 years down the line that thread, which may well still be going, has chunks missing and the posts responding to the missing chunks make little to no sense.

We have threads here that have been ongoing for 10 years.

The gender conversation was fine until the point the focus shifted from what you were saying, to what you said you'd done. You and I had clashed a little in the thread already (nothing I consider too heavy). I wasn't taking any of that personally - it didn't change my opinion of you. I am used to being able to have a robust and even at times aggressive and contentious discussion with someone whose views are the polar opposite of mine and remaing just as friendly with that person outide of that position.

It's funny that you mention Sexobon - because he and I have had somehumdinger rows on here - but I still like him and we still bounce off each other's humour. You are misreading the Cellar if you think Sexobon is generally ignored.

I was very surprised when you decided to leave over this. I was also a little sad about it. Because as is often the case, I wasn't feeling any personal animosity towards you when we were arguing. I was stating my case - and you were stating yours. If things get heavy I am far more inclined to end or leave the conversation than cut ties with the board or even the poster I have been arguing with. There's no reason why a fundamental disagreement in one thing should translate to enmity or disdain across the board. Some of my favourite dwellars are people I have had almighty rows with at times and whose views are the polar opposite of mine in some areas.

The gender thread was, I thought, becoming a very interesting discussion until it twisted into something else. But that can happen sometimes. Sometimes, it becomes about the posters, rather than the original topic. Then again, sometimes it very quickly goes back to being about the topic again.

What you seem to be saying is that the discussions never go very deep - and that we only talk about each other. But this place is full of ongoing discussions about all sorts of issues, from abortion to gun control, from gender inequality to the transgender experience, from particular musical styles to the future of the republican party, from the realities of bringing up children with autism to the situation in the middle east.

The problem was that the conversation did not go where you wished to steer it - that happens. You posted something and people's reactions to it were not what you expected - suddenly the thread stopped being about a discussion of gender in the round and started being a discussion of your approach to gender and the people around you.

I can understand how that might have been both surprising and off-putting. But that is life. If you put yourself out into the world and open up your own thinking on it you expose yourself to other people's responses to that.

[ForFuckSake]

Originally Posted by DanaC

One of the reasons for not deleting user's posts is because it orphans all the other posts around it. 3 years down the line that thread, which may well still be going, has chunks missing and the posts responding to the missing chunks make little to no sense.

Which is why I specified threads which were my own, specifically so that it wouldn't leave cut-out conversations, and I filtered out community oriented threads that took off. Hell, a few of the ones on the list I asked to delete didn't have any responses at all, and the ones that did were still about my own personal issues, and even among those I filtered out threads that ended up including other people's content and personal stories. The forum would have remained largely unchanged.

Originally Posted by DanaC

The gender conversation was fine until the stuff about playing psycho games with unwitting particpants. You and I had clashed a little in it (nothing I consider too heavy). I wasn't taking any o fthat personally - it didn't change my opinion of you.

Yes, but it should. Other aspects of our disagreements might be in part connected to ways in which I changed and my values over the years, "a dark path" - as you called it, but this isn't one of them. Like I just said, it's an essential part of how I interact with the world, it's part of how I think, how I experience interacting with people's minds - more akin to a sense of touch then sight or sound. If you would be revolted and disgusted by it, there is very little in my way of thinking that wouldn't either - The only reason it didn't so far is because you didn't understand it.


My best friend IRL is a hassidic hippy, I have heated disagreements with him about everything for years, and then we go have coffee and a good laugh. But I don't partition conversations into their own little bubbles either - they say what they say about whoever is saying them - as they do in this case.

Originally Posted by DanaC

What you seem to be saying is that the discussions never go very deep - and that we only talk about each other. But this place is full of ongoing discussions about all sorts of issues, from abortion to gun control, from gender inequality to the transgender experience, from particular musical styles to the future of the republican party, from the realities of bringing up children with autism to the situation in the middle east.

Like I said:

Originally Posted by ForFuckSake

Don't get me wrong, you guys engage plenty when its a conversation about someone - whether it's personal life or online drama like here right now - but not when it's about something. Mostly then there's no conversation rolling at all, unless it's something you are already familiar with in which case it becomes a list of disconnected opinions that rarely respond to each other with very little dialogue, with the one exception of politics. But politics is, well... Politics. Established conversations we've all heard a hundred times where everyone knows everyone else's arguments.

The two exceptions you listed are - again - about someone here raising a kid with autism and about someone here going through the transgender experience - are people talking about their own lives. Again, there's nothing wrong with that, but if your going to pretend that they were deep conversations questioning the role of ableism in society or the concept of gender existentialism, that's utter bullshit. Are my personal threads articles about "the reality of marriage and divorce in the 21st century"? Because I've had all 3 of those conversations, they were fascinating conversations. They get informed by personal experience, but they aren't about the person. Unfortunately, they all share the common denominator of never taking place here, and judging by experience and what I've seen so far, if someone did try to start them here they wouldn't go anywhere.

[DanaC]

The only reason it didn't so far is because you didn't understand it.

I understood it. I just couldn't relate to it.

I don't know what it is you are looking for really. This place is a community - a bunch of friends of chatting and sharing the world with each other. With good friends, I might well have a long conversation about my most deeply held beliefs, or about the structure of the world in which we live - but - mostly I'll offer them a brew and ask how that job interview went/ whether they saw the latest episode of Mr Robot/ how little-un is enoying the new school.

The deeper conversations happen - but they organically arise. A lot of the most engaging conversations in here aren't headlined. Some of the most interesting debates about gender, for example, since it's a topic of interest to me, aren't in threads about gender - they're scattered amongst and across multiple threads, many of which are ostensibly about something and nothing. As in real life they're in amongst the offers of tea and cake, or pics of the halloween party at work.

But hey - it's your life, man. If this place doesn't float your boat then be somewhere else instead.

[Sundae]

Originally Posted by DanaC

But hey - it's your life, man. If this place doesn't float your boat then be somewhere else instead.

Or as I would put it - take your shit elsewhere, no-one wants you here anyway.
As usual Dani is far more reasonable than I am.

I'm glad to find out that your life stories were not fabricated. Doesn't mean I want you and your Cellar-hating ways around though.
Hope you find what you're looking for somewhere else.

[Undertoad]

IT'S ALL ABOUT ME. I LOVE IT.

IT'S ALL ABOUT ME. I LOVE IT.

IT'S ALL ABOUT ME. NOW I GET PUSHBACK. ASSHOLES. I AM LEAVING. DELETE ALL MY POSTS AND PRETEND I WAS NEVER HERE.

IT'S STILL ALL ABOUT ME. I LOVE IT. I AM POSTING MORE ABOUT HOW MY POSTS DIDN'T GET DELETED.

We know what we need to do if we want you as a poster, T. We'll just talk about you.

[ForFuckSake]

Originally Posted by Sundae

no-one wants you here anyway.

Originally Posted by Undertoad

We know what we need to do if we want you as a poster, T. We'll just talk about you.

Perfect

[Gravdigr]

[DanaC]

They look like zombie smileys attacking the horse and eating it.


Anyway - this seems like the perfect moment for this:

[Zathris]

Originally Posted by monster

In the UK, johnny is a euphemism for condom.

Hmm, I guess it is. I just found it in the Cambrigde English Dictionary.

[sexobon]

I've just tuned in and found that the second season of That Needy Guy With Second World Ethics has started. This should be even more laughs than the first season. This season's premiere involves That Needy Guy complaining about how everyone else is wanting to talk about someone rather that something while he goes on and on about how it all affects HIMSELF! Ahahahahaha! It's been hilarious so far! Thanks for this entertainment thread UT.

[Zathris]

Originally Posted by sexobon

I've just tuned in and found that the second season of That Needy Guy With Second World Ethics has started.

I don't see the connection to this thread.

[Zathris]

Originally Posted by DanaC

Anyway - this seems like the perfect moment for this:

[video]

Thanks. I needed that.